Did I bust anything? Engine won't turn plea for assistance.

[oddcycle]

In the midst of changing my valves I decided to refresh the chain tensioner at the same time as I had it out. I put everything back together but didn't have any loc-tite suitable for securing the nut on the end of the tensioner, I decided to wait to put it on till I had chance to pick some up.

Fast forward, I am pushing my bike to put it away. I knew the bike wasn't in neutral and grabbed the clutch to ensure I didn't roll the engine at all, alas I had screwed with my handlebars recently and the clutch was loose because of it. The handful of cable that gets pulled in when the handle is pulled wasn't enough to disengage transmission from engine. When I pushed it I heard the engine clunk over, it stopped the bike from moving, partially rolling the engine over at the same time. I have been hoping for the best as far as damage went, perhaps naively assumed it would be ok. At this point I was nervous about a bent valve or the like but not enough to pull the head. I was certain that my timing was going to be off, upon inspection the chain had obviously changed positions.

Fast forward another week, I come back to retime the thing. This time the engine wont roll over easily by kick start or the 19mm nut off the crank on the engine timing-points-dyna side. Admittedly I stepped hard on the kick start, there was a small metallic click of some sort. Definitely a moment I wish I could take back, gotta learn somehow I guess. Nothing sounded like it sheared but hell now I have to pull the head, right?

I pulled the engine but ran out of time before I was able to pull the head off, that will be first thing tomorrow. I'm a little out of my depth in completing the next part of the inspection. Looking through the service manual there are several micrometer or readout tests to make sure your valves are up to snuff. I have extremely low quality harbor freight stuff I could waste a lot of time trying to take some measurements with but I'm sure I won't be confident in the results. Would damage be obviously noticeable to the naked eye? Obviously I need to take a look at the piston to make sure it didn't take any damage either. What's the most likely thing to stopping the engine from rotating? I can roll it forwards until it hits an obstruction and backwards till it hits a stuck spot. Looking at the cam chain the best I can I don't think it is kinked or wrapped under anywhere.

My plan:

-Pop the head off tomorrow, hope something obvious and easily fixable jumps out at me.
-Order a head gasket.
-Continue combing GS forum/ resources in the hope that I can find the right thread.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

[Steve]

If you are removing the head, order a base gasket, too. The gasket will be disturbed (and probably damaged) when you remove the head.

When you said you "changed the valves", did you mean that you had the head off and physically removed valves and replaced them with others? Or were you changing shims between the cams and the valves, which is merely an "adjustment"?

.

 

[oddcycle]

Ah, I was only changing out shims to adjust the valves. Until now I have not pulled the head before.

Base gasket has been added to the list, thanks.

 

[cornishgs]

You might not have bent any valves it might be cam chain is bunched up and jammed at bottom spocket? if no tensioner in and no guide there will have been a lot of slack .shine a torch down centre tunnel. maybe do compression check before removing head, if it was cam chainthat was bunched up.

 

[DimitriT]

Is it possible the timing chain rolled over itself and wedged the crank?

Is there tension on the chain even with the tensioner off?

Have you tried turning the crank in reverse to see if you might free the chain?

<cornish beat me to it>

 

[oddcycle]

The chain is loose, I was able to pull the cams with no issue whatsoever. It's still possible the chain is bunched up, I wasn't able to see down the tunnel with the engine in the frame, I should have a better chance to do that today.

 

[oddcycle]

Well I pulled the engine prematurely, sure enough it was the chain wrapped around that was causing the problem. One good yank on the thing, cleared it out of the way.Thanks for the advice guys! I had the Suzuki manual with me when I was initially running into a problem. I wish I had the clymers guide with me at the time as well, I didn't realize you can pull the head and the jugs with the engine in frame. That's super clear in the clymers guide but not all that clear in the suzuki service manual. Oh well, I learned a bundle about the bike and was able to clean the engine nicely while it's out.

Now I just need to figure out how to get the engine back in. It seems there is the hulk method of just bruiting the it back in, the lay the engine sideways method as well. I have a really great overhead hoist at my disposal but it didn't seem to help all that much when I initially pulled the engine, it was hard to get the angle of the engine just right.

Looking through the links above, I think the most appealing method of getting the engine back in, is from Rudy

I'll use the bike lift for my illustration:

Ok, what you want to do is get the engine ready to come out. Carbs, exhaust, chain, breather cap, all that nice stuff. Put it up on the center stand (or paddock stands) and undo the majority of the mounting bolts as well. Leave two easy ones, usually the back one and front one are easiest.

Get your lift and bring it in from the right (GS1000 & 750, dunno about the rest). Put a few pieces of old 2x4, that you should have laying around anyway, on the lift under the oil pan. Lift it up slightly, enough to pull the remaining bolts out. (If you don't want your frame scratched, tape rags or cardboard or whatever to the frame where you're taking the engine out.) A helping hand is nice to keep the engine steady as it may wiggle around a bit as you remove the mounting bolts, but its not a must.

With the rest of the bolts out, pump the lift up until the cam cover is about a 1/2" away from the top tube, make sure everything will clear, wheel that hassie on out until your wood hits the inside of the frame. (This is where the cardboard comes in) Set the engine down on the frame while holding the engine (the further you bring it out the first time, the easier it is to hold), push the lift back in a bit and lift again and wheel it out some more. The engine should now be sitting just past it's halfway mark.

Lower the lift, bring the wood to the outside of the frame and lift the engine again, wheel it all the way out and you're done! :dancing: It's that easy.

Once you've done it once or twice you can swap an engine in about 5 minutes with little or no effort. It's honestly just as easy to remove as it is to install, and with the lift there already, it makes the mounting bolt install that much easier.


Just so you guys know, I've tried the lay down method in and out. Have also tried the Hulk method, complete with getting very angry with pinched and bleeding fingers and a sore back. If you have a lift, it's not worth the aggravation to do it any other way. I showed this method to a buddy of mine and he just about fell over he couldn't believe how easy and quick it was.

Any words of wisdom not mentioned in those threads? Any ideas on how I can use the hoist to my advantage since it's already there? Thanks for your patience with my often times naive questions. I'm learning thanks to all your help!

 

[oddcycle]

Jsandidge posted this over in tips and tricks. I think I'll like use the hoist instead of a second person to hold up the other end of the lifting frame, put a piece of wood in to slide it over on. I'll update this thread later if I discover anything else helpful.