Easy Stator/RR Replacement for '77 GS550?

[posplayr]

If it is, it would be an auto-scale problem on that meter. :-k

I have never had a problem with auto scale on my old Fluke 77.

I am wondering if those measurements were 'open circuit' or was the R/R connected?

.

"auto" is synonymous with "software".............;need I say more?


even if the R/R was connected you might see something closer 14V RMS. The stator voltage is tied to the rails of the battery.

 

[JE550B]

Right... so I stopped by the hardware store after work and bought a length of wire. Spliced the negative output from R/R and ran one wire to a bolt on the starter relay plate (frame) and one directly to the negative terminal on my battery. Last night I cleaned all of the positive wire connections between R/R and battery positive terminal. Voltage at battery key on motor off was 12.7. Voltage at battery with headlight on was 12.5. Voltage at battery @ 4000rpm was 12.6. Then I got frustrated and connected the R/R negative output directly to the battery negative terminal with no frame ground and the voltage readings at battery were exactly the same.

Is it possible that all of my readings at the battery are just my standing battery voltage and I am, in fact, not generating anything from the stator whatsoever? I can't even imagine how that would be possible unless the rotor wasn't spinning.

Now would be a good time for someone to jump in and remind me that the rotor doesn't turn unless you are in gear and I should be doing all of my testing with the motor in gear. Before I quit my job and go back to school to study electronics does anybody have any ideas about what might be going on? In the meantime I guess I'll go change the inline fuse and see if anything happens...

btw... auto scale on the multimeter works just fine on the wall outlet at home.

 

[posplayr]

Right... so I stopped by the hardware store after work and bought a length of wire. Spliced the negative output from R/R and ran one wire to a bolt on the starter relay plate (frame) and one directly to the negative terminal on my battery. Last night I cleaned all of the positive wire connections between R/R and battery positive terminal. Voltage at battery key on motor off was 12.7. Voltage at battery with headlight on was 12.5. Voltage at battery @ 4000rpm was 12.6. Then I got frustrated and connected the R/R negative output directly to the battery negative terminal with no frame ground and the voltage readings at battery were exactly the same.

Is it possible that all of my readings at the battery are just my standing battery voltage and I am, in fact, not generating anything from the stator whatsoever? I can't even imagine how that would be possible unless the rotor wasn't spinning.

Now would be a good time for someone to jump in and remind me that the rotor doesn't turn unless you are in gear and I should be doing all of my testing with the motor in gear. Before I quit my job and go back to school to study electronics does anybody have any ideas about what might be going on? In the meantime I guess I'll go change the inline fuse and see if anything happens...

btw... auto scale on the multimeter works just fine on the wall outlet at home.

If you review the "quick test" there are three voltages to measure the charging. Idle, 2500 and 5000. You only gave one so it is hard to tell much.

 

[JE550B]

Aha, forgot to differentiate. Idle: 12.5, @2500: 12.5, @5000: 12.6. This was after swapping the in-line fuse with a fresh one 5 minutes ago. Should I try running a discrete positive wire directly from R/R to battery positive terminal or would that be a bad move?

 

[posplayr]

Well with those numbers it suggests that there is nothing coming out of the stator and perhaps the 2.5vac you measured is correct. I would redo the stator phase b tests for leg to ground. If you are getting anything then you must have shorted out that new stator.

it might show with the ohm meter but it meas s pulling the stator cover again so I would double check.

 

[JE550B]

Okay, ran through the Stator phase B tests again. I got a 0.8 ohm reading between all pairs of stator output wires and an OL reading for each individual stator wire to many different frame grounds. I didn't fire up the engine again to test the voltage between stator output wires but the last time I tested each pair was consistently 2.5 vac. I guess the 2.5 vac fails the Stator phase B test but everything else is so consistent and seemingly behaving as it should that I can't help but feel like it's something else causing the problem.

Would it make sense to try these tests with a different battery? I've been using a new LiFePO4 battery so far. Should I try my tired old battery acid?

If I'm generating 2.5vac with the engine running, and there are no crazy noises, wouldn't that suggest that the rotor and stator have a reasonable relationship inside the case? I mean, maybe the stator was just garbage on arrival?

 

[posplayr]

If you have voltage leg to ground then you are shorted.


Link to Revised PHASE B of Stator Pages with discussion of testing methods:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3977567/dummy-load-scanned-pdf-may-14-2012-8-24-pm-649k?da=y

 

[tom203]

"....maybe the stator was just garbage on arrival?"

This gets my vote! On ohm test, your meter gave "OL" on stator lead to ground (meaning no connection) which is good, though not conclusive..both of my failed stators still produced some output when they were shorted to ground, so if yours was/is you should see something above that 2.4 volts AC.

 

[JE550B]

If you have voltage leg to ground then you are shorted.

Turns out I've got 1.8VAC from each leg to ground at 5,000rpm...

Now, I thought I was being pretty careful during the stator install but everything is my first time on this bike so I may have done some damage without knowing it. Can anybody advise on what my next steps would be? If I have caused the short to ground myself is it possible that the stator is still good and I can fix it with the proper diagnostics? Do the measured numbers prove that this stator was bad on delivery and I should initiate a replacement process? Should I just forget about Electrosport stators and look elsewhere?

Thanks in advance for your help. Right now my rides are limited to how much courage I can summon up against a single battery charge.

 

[posplayr]

Turns out I've got 1.8VAC from each leg to ground at 5,000rpm...

Now, I thought I was being pretty careful during the stator install but everything is my first time on this bike so I may have done some damage without knowing it. Can anybody advise on what my next steps would be? If I have caused the short to ground myself is it possible that the stator is still good and I can fix it with the proper diagnostics? Do the measured numbers prove that this stator was bad on delivery and I should initiate a replacement process? Should I just forget about Electrosport stators and look elsewhere?

Thanks in advance for your help. Right now my rides are limited to how much courage I can summon up against a single battery charge.

Is sounds like there is a short across the three legs very close or the stator input. If you are sure the meter is correct, then open it up. There is not much else to do.

If there is no obvious damage call electrosport.

 

[JE550B]

Is sounds like there is a short across the three legs very close or the stator input.

I had to pull the wires pretty tight to fit through all of the guides and slide the grommet into the slot. Does it sound like I might have pulled some wire out of the insulation at the stator connection point? On the BassCliff stator replacement guide it seems there was a similar problem that was solved by simply re-soldering the connection points.

Also, when I open it up is there anyway to tell what went wrong and whether it was my fault or a manufacturer defect?

Thanks

 

[posplayr]

I had to pull the wires pretty tight to fit through all of the guides and slide the grommet into the slot. Does it sound like I might have pulled some wire out of the insulation at the stator connection point? On the BassCliff stator replacement guide it seems there was a similar problem that was solved by simply re-soldering the connection points.

Also, when I open it up is there anyway to tell what went wrong and whether it was my fault or a manufacturer defect?

Thanks

You are just going to need pictures. If your measurements are correct then there is something wrong and if you are lucky it will be obvious.

 

[Steve]

Back in post #12, you stated that you replaced the stator with a Rick's 12-pole stator. You had mentioned in previous posts that you are aware of an "upgrade" to an 18-pole stator and that it also requires changing the rotor.

I am wondering if someone had already done the upgrade? :-k

Did the stator that you removed have 12 poles?

Next time you pull the stator cover, let me know. There is a test you can do to see if you have a rotor that is meant for 12 or 18 pole stators.

.

 

[posplayr]

Back in post #12, you stated that you replaced the stator with a Rick's 12-pole stator. You had mentioned in previous posts that you are aware of an "upgrade" to an 18-pole stator and that it also requires changing the rotor.

I am wondering if someone had already done the upgrade? :-k

Did the stator that you removed have 12 poles?

Next time you pull the stator cover, let me know. There is a test you can do to see if you have a rotor that is meant for 12 or 18 pole stators.

.

First thing I have heard they is making any sense

 

[JE550B]

Back in post #12, you stated that you replaced the stator with a Rick's 12-pole stator.

In post #12 I said that I went with Electrosport. I went with that particular unit because it was a fresh 12-pole rather than the rewound Rick's that was almost twice the price. I'm 99% sure the old stator was 12-pole because I compared the two when I pulled it off. I'll track down that 1% of doubt this week. It still might be possible that the old stator was a 12-pole in a previously, previously installed 18-pole rotor because that stator hasn't worked since I bought the bike. Is there a visual test that could confirm the status of the rotor or do I need to have some gear ready when I open it up?

I'll post a follow-up when I have a chance to pull the stator cover.

 

[Steve]

Is there a visual test that could confirm the status of the rotor or do I need to have some gear ready when I open it up?

OK, sorry that I mis-remembered the vendor, but the main point was the 12-pole stator.

No special gear or tools necessary, just a piece of steel that you don't care if it gets magnetized. You can use a screwdriver, nail or a metal coat hanger, it doesn't really matter. Just hold one end of it to the inside of the rotor, you will notice that is gets pulled to one of the magnet poles. Move it around the rotor, count how many times it gets pulled to a pole.

.

 

[JE550B]

Bad news: I am King of the Noobs.
Good news: I know what the problem is... posplayr and Steve for the tag team win. Special credit to Facius for the July 2014 thread that could have prevented my mistake had I completely understood it at the time.

It has started raining in the PNW and I found some time to pull the stator cover. 18-pole stator for sure; 6 pairs. Checked it 10 times with different magnets. Old, toasty stator really was 12-pole so I guess this is how I learn my lesson about not trusting the PO.

Steve - Just PM'ed you on a smaller 18-pole stator.

Thanks again everybody for helping out on this thread.

 

[JE550B]

Success! Thanks to Steve for shipping that new stator fast enough for me to enjoy the beautiful weekend weather.

Caution to new owners: check to see if your original 12-pole system has been upgraded to 18-pole next time you've got the stator cover off.