Free R/R Schematic and Parts Description

[Keith Winter]

Hi Nerobro,
Well, linear reg's do use a little juice (and make a little heat) in the pass transistor's. This part of a linear wasn't as hard to deal with as some of the other stuff with them though. One of the problems in my first design was the input to output voltage, as in you need at least 2 volts difference for the regulator to work. I used NPN (3055's) in the first reg I built, driven at the base, but the voltage drop from emitter to collector was no good at slow rpm stator output. In my second design I used PNP (2955's) pass transistors with a 1.5 amp regulator chip in a "wrap around" configuration. This system worked perfectly and at a idle, with a little creative circuit work, it still pumps out a little juice to the battery, about what the shunt type reg does. The only problem then was heat, and keeping things as compact as possible. I changed the regulator chip to a 3 amp version and replaced the 2955's with 200 watt PNP's, adjusted a few resistance's, and it's been working in the bike ever since. Like I said somewhere before it's not to big, it fit's between the battery and the rear brake master cylinder and on my 1000, that's not a big spot! It never get's hot enough, ever, that you can't touch or hold onto it, so heat isn't a big deal. I run it at 20 volt's DC input from the rectifier and I'm sure it would be fine with a even higher input going by how cool it run's now. It's not bolted to anything it just rattles around in there, if I bolted to part of the frame and got even more heat sinking it would run even colder. I'm not to sure what you mean with those part's numbers. My reg use's 2 pass transistor's and 1 regulator chip. I have the bill's for them somewhere, but I think the regulator chip was $3.50 and the 200 watt transistor's were $4 each, they were cheaper than the 35 amp SCR's, I think they were around $6 each. Anyway, it's been working perfect in the bike for about a year now, so I don't think I need any parts. Thank's anyway though. Maybe this week I'll crank up the input from the 20 volt's it's set at now and see when it goes into shut down mode. Who know's, maybe it will be ok with full output from the stator/rectifier! That would be good. Talk to you later.
Keith

 

[Nerobro]

The comment wasn't directed at you keith. It was directed at the audiance in general. And it was more sarcastic than anything else.

Though I think I've discovered your communication problem. You need to seperate your thoughts into paragraphs. If you do that your comments will be much more clear.

I'm still stuck on the switching power supply thing. I'm confident that a switching power supply would stay "touch cold" even under full load, and at full alternator output. I think I found a chip that can handle the switching. No, it wasn't the one I posted. I'll get to that in a bit.

 

[Keith Winter]

Hey,
I think you are right! Maybe I should change my style and it may actually make sense! I am one of those weird people who can never shut off their brain and can think about 4 different thing's at once, any more than 4 thing's though and I end up with a really blank look on my face! In the future I will try and slow down and think about 1 thing at a time when I am posting stuff!
I agree 100% with the switching reg idea of your's. I have been pouring over schematic's of the switch mode power supply design and I think this form of regulation is going to be the hot ticket for our need's.
We have just moved out to the west coast of Canada from Alberta, and allot of my equipment is still in box's. Also, here on Vancouver Island, I will not have a un-ending supply of electronic supply store's to shop from and will end up waiting for all but the most common of components to be "ordered in". But the BIGGEST problem of all, is not being side tracked! Vancouver Island is almost a paradise for motorcycle's this time of year. Smooth, twisting road's everywhere, very light traffic OR in some place's, no traffic at all. I end up going on all day ride's instead of getting anything done! And if not the bike, it's my boat. The lure to throw the boat in the water and blast off for the day is almost impossible to resist!
Anyway, the switching reg is going to be the best in the end, like you said. I did mangage to find my schematic of the CBX reg, but, I'm not sure how I can post it. YES, I am that computer stupid! I have scanned the image to my bike file in my computer and need some direction on how to put it on here. If you or anyone else could tell me how, I will post it. And remember, I am a dummy when it come's to this sort of thing.
Keith

 

[fastpakr]

I don't have a web (HTTP) server running at the moment, but if you want to email it to me I can stick it on my FTP server and just post a link to browse to the file in the thread.
Edit: Keith, I just sent you an email with the credentials to log in and upload the file. If that doesn't work for you, you can just email the file to mcj (dot) usmc (at) gmail (dot) com and I'll post it on my end.

Anybody else who wants to look at the file can click here and it should open an FTP session in your browser with my server. Obviously, there won't be anything there until we can get the schematic posted.

 

[bakalorz]

I did mangage to find my schematic of the CBX reg, but, I'm not sure how I can post it. YES, I am that computer stupid! I have scanned the image to my bike file in my computer and need some direction on how to put it on here. If you or anyone else could tell me how, I will post it. And remember, I am a dummy when it come's to this sort of thing.
Keith

The easiest way is to go to a free hosting service and upload it
The first one I found in google is
http://www.mysharefile.com/index.php

to do it:
go to "select file" and click the browse button
find and click on the file you want to share.
type something (anything) in the description box
click on the upload button
wait for the upload progress bars to stop moving.

below the blue area of the screen is the sentence
File: successfully uploaded! Here is the link: [Open Download Link]

click on the words [Open Download Link]

you will be taken to where you can download your file.
after a 20 sec wait where you watch their advertisement, you could download the file if you wanted.

But what you want is the address of that site, it is now in the address bar of your browser.
it will read something like:
http://www.mysharefile.com/v/4778685/1_ERC_Handbook.pdf.html

Highlight the address in your browser, copy it, and paste it into a message here.

Go ride your motorcycle after all your hard labor.

 

[Keith Winter]

Thanks Martin,
After the few brain cell's that I have still working re-set, I will try your advice!
Keith

 

[fastpakr]

Martin's way is definitely the best long term. In the meantime, however, you can get to the file by clicking here.

 

[Nerobro]

Both example regulators are not applicable to our bikes. Those are field coil alternators, exactly like what you find in your car. Field coil alternators make controling alternator output easy. However... we have permanant magnet alternators, so we're screwed in that respect.

*screams* NEXT!

 

[Keith Winter]

Hey,
Nerobro, I think your right! Oh well, my mistake. Though it does give us something else to look at. The Kawasaki 77 and before reg I knew wasn't good for us, but it was on the same page as the SCR type that our bike's do use. Other than the fact that the 78 and up Kawasaki is only a 2 phase AC, it's the same type of AC trigger/ SCR that is stock on our machines. Add another phase and a set of SCR's and trigger, and it's the same. The Honda reg is good at showing a shunt type reg that doesn't use SCR's though, and even though like you say isn't really right for our bike's, it does give us more info on regulator system's. You could think of the feild coil as a load with the reg controling what's going threw it. Anyway, the more stuff to look at, the more interesting thing's are.
Keith

 

[Keith Winter]

Hi,
I may have found a slight problem with the switch mode regulator scheme. Looking in my book's, I found the most basic SMR design in there. The problem I think is going to be the large capacitor's needed to make it work properly. If one ignore's the transformer in the design ( we don't need it), and just look's at the rectifier/ regulator system, it end's up being quite large for the small space's we have on the bike. This is only a 5 amp SMR, and, I think we would need at least a 10 amp version to put in our bike's. I will try the "link" to the picture and see if I got THAT right! Let me know if my link work's.www.mysharefile.com/v/3222038/SMR.JPG.html
Keith

 

[Nerobro]

The honda RR isn't a shunt type RR. It's a field coil design. I'm actually kinda glad we don't have field coil alternator... there's more stuff to fail. Rabidwolf recently had to replace his rotor becuase his shorted out. We will never have that problem. We also will never have worn out brushes.

A 20amp switching power supply doesn't need to be that large. And if the design I'm looking at works the way I think it will... Becuase the input voltage will be very close to the output voltage most of the time, the heat generated will be small. We shall see!

To do this right we need a transistor (I"m guessing mosfet) that can handle 20+amps. We need a nice big inductor, a diode that can handle 20amps, and some circut that will switch off that transistor at 14.4v, and ideally have say.. a .2v drop before it cuts back in.

I'm working on it...

 

[Keith Winter]

Hi,
I think most SMR work at 20-50 khz for the PWM that controls the pass transistor. Do you think we can get around the large capacitor's that work with the required inductance on the output side of the reg?
Keith

 

[Nerobro]

Taht's the funny thing. I think we can get away with heavy ripple. I've found caps that'll handle the input voltage. And I was hoping to NOT use a PWM controler, just let the thing "self" occilate dependant on the available input power to the regulator. I'll explain it better later tonight. Diagrams and all that.