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I am going to return it directly to the main tank
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I am going to return it directly to the main tank
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Got my frame back today from the welder
Here is my home made rig to check the frame for tweaks. Pretty self expanitory. Measure the triangles...
Here is the new coil bracket I made to clearence the plug wires. The Dyna coils have a tendancy to ground arc to the stock coil mount area from the plug wire boot. The stock mount is just too tight to the coil.
Time to mount the bandit 1200 swingarm. Katana pivot is 16mm, bandit pivot is about 20mm so a reducer bushing needs to be made. Also the bandit arm is narrower than the GS frame so they need collars as well.
When mounting the rear gsxr/bandit wheel (5.5 rim) I always use the GS sprocket carrier for this reason, sprocket sits closer to the midline of the bike so you have more chain clearance by the frame.
By doing this you also have to use the GS inner hub bushing. They are shorter than the gsxr. IF you use the wrong size bushing you will 1. not gain any chain clearance or 2. explode a wheel bearing from lateral loadiing.
I take the rubber cush out of the wheel when checking inner bushing fitment to eliminate the "squish factor". With the cush in the hub the carrier/bushing don't seat against the wheel bearing surface until the wheel is torqued down. You have to squish the cush to see if the bushing is the right size. That inner bushing has to mate against the wheel bearing or you may find yourself in a world of trouble on some lonely corner somewhere. The rubber cush is ONLY for rotational dampening.
Here is my home made rig to check the frame for tweaks. Pretty self expanitory. Measure the triangles...
Here is the new coil bracket I made to clearence the plug wires. The Dyna coils have a tendancy to ground arc to the stock coil mount area from the plug wire boot. The stock mount is just too tight to the coil.
Time to mount the bandit 1200 swingarm. Katana pivot is 16mm, bandit pivot is about 20mm so a reducer bushing needs to be made. Also the bandit arm is narrower than the GS frame so they need collars as well.
When mounting the rear gsxr/bandit wheel (5.5 rim) I always use the GS sprocket carrier for this reason, sprocket sits closer to the midline of the bike so you have more chain clearance by the frame.
By doing this you also have to use the GS inner hub bushing. They are shorter than the gsxr. IF you use the wrong size bushing you will 1. not gain any chain clearance or 2. explode a wheel bearing from lateral loadiing.
I take the rubber cush out of the wheel when checking inner bushing fitment to eliminate the "squish factor". With the cush in the hub the carrier/bushing don't seat against the wheel bearing surface until the wheel is torqued down. You have to squish the cush to see if the bushing is the right size. That inner bushing has to mate against the wheel bearing or you may find yourself in a world of trouble on some lonely corner somewhere. The rubber cush is ONLY for rotational dampening.
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Loooooooooooooooooove this phone!
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Checking Trail
Checking Trail
Was doing some "TRAIL" measuring today and here are my results.
I found the correlation between engine cradle angle and trail effect is about 1inch per degree.
I measured the trail with the bike sitting at 3.5 degrees, gsxr 750 29" front fork setup, 17" front wheel. Don't ask me about other setting as this is an excersize in differentials not actual numbers for a particular bike..
That being said, I reset the bike using a 19" front wheel, same forks. That gave me a new angle of the engine cradle of 2.5", increased the trail by 1" to 4.25" from 3.25".
Now I set up the bike like it would sit weighted with proper sag numbers of 40mm rear and 60mm front (ride height total sag recommended figures from Ohlins USA). This puts the bike in the actual attidude it will have when I am riding it. Here are some stock trail numbers:
GS1100E 4.06"
GS1100 katana 4.65"
GSXR 750w 3.7"
Ducati 1098 3.85"
2008 busa 3.66"
zx14 3.7"
According to the information above my goal is somewhere between the katana and the GSXR (closer to the GSXR). After setup I measured the trail to be 3.75". Now, from the angle numbers above I could predict the new engine cradle angle to be 3.0 degrees. I checked it and it was 3.1.
In the picture below you can see the difference between the 19" and 17" wheel. With the 19" wheel the trail increases by the steering stem angle increasing and the axle actually moving back.
This post is for general information that some may find interesting. Also because I have seen some jacked up Gs's recently and wanted to show how little changes in a bikes attitude can change a stable bike into a tank slappin bronco buckin world of hurt. I know there are other factors involved and trail is one important part of the stability of the motocycle.
It may be beneficial to start a seperate thead on this subject of others who need more specific information. Please don't debate it here as I feel it could be a long discussion and I don't want to get too far off track.
My setup is gsxr 17" wheels, '94 gsxr 750 forks (29" length), 954 drop triples, bandit 1200 swingarm with extensions and custom shock mount location. Without the 4" over on the swing the trail would increase as the back end would be lowered slightly.
For checking the stem position I used my new laser inside a machined sleeve that fit snug into the stem hole. You can see the laser dot in the pic. For the axle position I used a carpenter's square to find both edges of the axle then found the center. For my purposes the accuracy is sufficient.
Checking Trail
Was doing some "TRAIL" measuring today and here are my results.
I found the correlation between engine cradle angle and trail effect is about 1inch per degree.
I measured the trail with the bike sitting at 3.5 degrees, gsxr 750 29" front fork setup, 17" front wheel. Don't ask me about other setting as this is an excersize in differentials not actual numbers for a particular bike..
That being said, I reset the bike using a 19" front wheel, same forks. That gave me a new angle of the engine cradle of 2.5", increased the trail by 1" to 4.25" from 3.25".
Now I set up the bike like it would sit weighted with proper sag numbers of 40mm rear and 60mm front (ride height total sag recommended figures from Ohlins USA). This puts the bike in the actual attidude it will have when I am riding it. Here are some stock trail numbers:
GS1100E 4.06"
GS1100 katana 4.65"
GSXR 750w 3.7"
Ducati 1098 3.85"
2008 busa 3.66"
zx14 3.7"
According to the information above my goal is somewhere between the katana and the GSXR (closer to the GSXR). After setup I measured the trail to be 3.75". Now, from the angle numbers above I could predict the new engine cradle angle to be 3.0 degrees. I checked it and it was 3.1.
In the picture below you can see the difference between the 19" and 17" wheel. With the 19" wheel the trail increases by the steering stem angle increasing and the axle actually moving back.
This post is for general information that some may find interesting. Also because I have seen some jacked up Gs's recently and wanted to show how little changes in a bikes attitude can change a stable bike into a tank slappin bronco buckin world of hurt. I know there are other factors involved and trail is one important part of the stability of the motocycle.
It may be beneficial to start a seperate thead on this subject of others who need more specific information. Please don't debate it here as I feel it could be a long discussion and I don't want to get too far off track.
My setup is gsxr 17" wheels, '94 gsxr 750 forks (29" length), 954 drop triples, bandit 1200 swingarm with extensions and custom shock mount location. Without the 4" over on the swing the trail would increase as the back end would be lowered slightly.
For checking the stem position I used my new laser inside a machined sleeve that fit snug into the stem hole. You can see the laser dot in the pic. For the axle position I used a carpenter's square to find both edges of the axle then found the center. For my purposes the accuracy is sufficient.
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I got the wheels on today after misting the frame with some black.
Front end is 2002 honda 954 triples, '94 gsxr 750 forks, '95 gixxer front wheel and tokico 6 pot stoppers. I am using a spacer where the speedo drive should be that I got from a bandit 1200. Not sure of the year cuz I know many of them have the speedo which fits the gixxer wheels as well. I will be going digital with the clocks so don't need the cable. Fender is '05 gixxer that needs custom mounts. Clipons are '92 gsxr 750 (1100 clips don't work) If they are a little low for some you can use 954 clipons. They have a couple inch rise to them.
To mount the 954 triples you have to press out the lower race and press on a new tapered bearing Just look on ebay for 954 tapered bearings. They fit the '82/'83 katana neck. You have to fab some new steering stops and contour the stock kat ignition to fit the hole. It will fit with some carving.
Here is one I did a few years ago.
The 954 stem is the right length but the upper bearing sits a partially on the lock down threads which are the same OD. It has two lock nuts unlike our single so I only use the one lock down.
The 954 triple is the same spread as the gixxer 750 so no alignment problems for calipers or rotors. I use them to gain more fork length as the top triple has a step. You have to use both triples, the gixxer triples do not match up. I spent money and time trying to fit gixxer lowers to a 954 top.
Being my new trail numbers are similar to the gsxr I have added a stablizer to the front end. Very tricky business, not much room in there. I know there is another one that runs under the fairing side cover but they only work with stock forks. The gixxer forks are much wider. I couldn't find room.
All in all front end went smooth.
Front end is 2002 honda 954 triples, '94 gsxr 750 forks, '95 gixxer front wheel and tokico 6 pot stoppers. I am using a spacer where the speedo drive should be that I got from a bandit 1200. Not sure of the year cuz I know many of them have the speedo which fits the gixxer wheels as well. I will be going digital with the clocks so don't need the cable. Fender is '05 gixxer that needs custom mounts. Clipons are '92 gsxr 750 (1100 clips don't work) If they are a little low for some you can use 954 clipons. They have a couple inch rise to them.
To mount the 954 triples you have to press out the lower race and press on a new tapered bearing Just look on ebay for 954 tapered bearings. They fit the '82/'83 katana neck. You have to fab some new steering stops and contour the stock kat ignition to fit the hole. It will fit with some carving.
Here is one I did a few years ago.
The 954 stem is the right length but the upper bearing sits a partially on the lock down threads which are the same OD. It has two lock nuts unlike our single so I only use the one lock down.
The 954 triple is the same spread as the gixxer 750 so no alignment problems for calipers or rotors. I use them to gain more fork length as the top triple has a step. You have to use both triples, the gixxer triples do not match up. I spent money and time trying to fit gixxer lowers to a 954 top.
Being my new trail numbers are similar to the gsxr I have added a stablizer to the front end. Very tricky business, not much room in there. I know there is another one that runs under the fairing side cover but they only work with stock forks. The gixxer forks are much wider. I couldn't find room.
All in all front end went smooth.
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bandit 1200 swing arm
bandit 1200 swing arm
Bandit 1200 swing arm, bandit 1200 rear wheel, '05 gsxr armless hanger and caliper. GS1100 sprocket carrier with inner spacer
I machined the usual stainless steel reducer bushings with collars to fit swing arm into the gs frame, custom stainless steel spacers to center the wheel. When mixing and matching parts it can get crazy. IF you buy a different year brack hanger/caliper than your wheel... start with the proper hanger spacer for the wheel to try and align the caliper. Calipers for the most part are made up of two sides bolted together. See if the center line in the caliper falls centered with the rotor. If it doesn't adust as needed.
The '05 hanger is for a 24mm diameter axle so I made a spacer/sleeve for that side. Also, a receiver was needed to weld to the inside of the arm for the tongue of the hanger. This works in place of the brake arm to immobilize the caliper.
I am using bolt on extensions although they have been modestly tacked on. They may be great for straight line but I am not comfortable with twisting it up with only 4 screws holding my whole back end on. The lateral loading makes me nervous. I may be machining some extension that will be welded to the arm where the original axle mounts. I may be cutting the ends off and welding in some extensions of my own.
In regard to the shocks. care must be taken to make sure they are perpendicular to the swing arm. If they are not they can bind, not work well and hasten ware. Attention must be paid to the spacing of the upper and lower shock mounts when using a custom swing arm. I always use the Suzuki inner rubber bushings in my shock mounts to offset any offset... ahahahah. I have seen mounts made with just holes in alum blocks which may be ok since the shocks themselves have bushings up top. The clevis ends should be bushed as well. That is a personal perspective and if its good enough for the Suzuki engineers, its good enough for me.
NOt a good pic I know. The wheel is centered though it looks way off in this pic.
ONe more tip. Before welding on any shock mounts you may want to install your chain to see where the clearance issues are. NOt all shocks have the same spring diameter and after your done in not the best time to find out the shock mount should have been a couple mm to the left.
bandit 1200 swing arm
Bandit 1200 swing arm, bandit 1200 rear wheel, '05 gsxr armless hanger and caliper. GS1100 sprocket carrier with inner spacer
I machined the usual stainless steel reducer bushings with collars to fit swing arm into the gs frame, custom stainless steel spacers to center the wheel. When mixing and matching parts it can get crazy. IF you buy a different year brack hanger/caliper than your wheel... start with the proper hanger spacer for the wheel to try and align the caliper. Calipers for the most part are made up of two sides bolted together. See if the center line in the caliper falls centered with the rotor. If it doesn't adust as needed.
The '05 hanger is for a 24mm diameter axle so I made a spacer/sleeve for that side. Also, a receiver was needed to weld to the inside of the arm for the tongue of the hanger. This works in place of the brake arm to immobilize the caliper.
I am using bolt on extensions although they have been modestly tacked on. They may be great for straight line but I am not comfortable with twisting it up with only 4 screws holding my whole back end on. The lateral loading makes me nervous. I may be machining some extension that will be welded to the arm where the original axle mounts. I may be cutting the ends off and welding in some extensions of my own.
In regard to the shocks. care must be taken to make sure they are perpendicular to the swing arm. If they are not they can bind, not work well and hasten ware. Attention must be paid to the spacing of the upper and lower shock mounts when using a custom swing arm. I always use the Suzuki inner rubber bushings in my shock mounts to offset any offset... ahahahah. I have seen mounts made with just holes in alum blocks which may be ok since the shocks themselves have bushings up top. The clevis ends should be bushed as well. That is a personal perspective and if its good enough for the Suzuki engineers, its good enough for me.
NOt a good pic I know. The wheel is centered though it looks way off in this pic.
ONe more tip. Before welding on any shock mounts you may want to install your chain to see where the clearance issues are. NOt all shocks have the same spring diameter and after your done in not the best time to find out the shock mount should have been a couple mm to the left.
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Got some more done today.
For the katana, the pivot shaft for the rear brake needs attention when installing a bandit 1200 swingarm. There are a few ways to deal with the tight fit.
1. spread the peg stays apart
2. man handle the pivot/actuator
3. cut some material off the sleeve it fits into and put a spacer on the other side (this is what I did) The brake return spring mount needs to be relocated or the mushroom top ground down to clear the swing arm. Plus, the return stop pad needs to be reduced as it is in contact with the swing arm. (remember it may fit as it sits but check to make sure there is clearance @ full compression)
With the mod I did with the GSXR rear master and moving the mount for it I was left with needing a longer plunger rod. Enter fresh new polished stainless steel custom rod.
Moving along there is a new dyna coil mounting bracket. The dyna coils can short to the frame because the stock mounting holes on the katana frame are too close together. That forces me to use the inner mount on the coils which brings the plug boots into very close if not contact with the mount itself. This will cause a very irritating intermittent miss that can take some time to track down. (ask me how I know)
Now back to the 954 triples. I decided to use the stock gs rubber seal for this bike. The gs seal has a .100" depth so I cut the lower stem nut on the lathe to fit. Turns out there isn't enough material there to do the whole job so I made a spacer to take up the rest of the slack.
By doing that I am left with a small space between the nut and triple as the triple has a smaller OD than that part of the stem. I will be cutting down the second jam nut to suit. In the pic you can't see the second set of threads it mates to. the front end is being held by my foot while my hands are full with posing and picture taking.
Then finally, the stops. I have welded new ones to the lower triple, welded new stop on the frame and I have even seen bolts throught the lower triple to be the stops. For this one I drilled and tapped out the existing stops. I had to turn down some #7 suzuki bolt heads and used a jam nut.
Very easy to adjust and no risk of warping the triple with an over zealous welder.
For the katana, the pivot shaft for the rear brake needs attention when installing a bandit 1200 swingarm. There are a few ways to deal with the tight fit.
1. spread the peg stays apart
2. man handle the pivot/actuator
3. cut some material off the sleeve it fits into and put a spacer on the other side (this is what I did) The brake return spring mount needs to be relocated or the mushroom top ground down to clear the swing arm. Plus, the return stop pad needs to be reduced as it is in contact with the swing arm. (remember it may fit as it sits but check to make sure there is clearance @ full compression)
With the mod I did with the GSXR rear master and moving the mount for it I was left with needing a longer plunger rod. Enter fresh new polished stainless steel custom rod.
Moving along there is a new dyna coil mounting bracket. The dyna coils can short to the frame because the stock mounting holes on the katana frame are too close together. That forces me to use the inner mount on the coils which brings the plug boots into very close if not contact with the mount itself. This will cause a very irritating intermittent miss that can take some time to track down. (ask me how I know)
Now back to the 954 triples. I decided to use the stock gs rubber seal for this bike. The gs seal has a .100" depth so I cut the lower stem nut on the lathe to fit. Turns out there isn't enough material there to do the whole job so I made a spacer to take up the rest of the slack.
By doing that I am left with a small space between the nut and triple as the triple has a smaller OD than that part of the stem. I will be cutting down the second jam nut to suit. In the pic you can't see the second set of threads it mates to. the front end is being held by my foot while my hands are full with posing and picture taking.
Then finally, the stops. I have welded new ones to the lower triple, welded new stop on the frame and I have even seen bolts throught the lower triple to be the stops. For this one I drilled and tapped out the existing stops. I had to turn down some #7 suzuki bolt heads and used a jam nut.
Very easy to adjust and no risk of warping the triple with an over zealous welder.
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Mounted "twister" today to see where I could weld a support bracket so all the weight wasn't hangin off the exhaust ports.
My best bet is the cross member right behind "twister". I may remove the round bar and replace with square stock. Or may decide not to do anything at all.
I think this would be my last frame mod before it would be ready for powder. I am not doing any "beauty" work though until the dryfit is done.
My best bet is the cross member right behind "twister". I may remove the round bar and replace with square stock. Or may decide not to do anything at all.
I think this would be my last frame mod before it would be ready for powder. I am not doing any "beauty" work though until the dryfit is done.
Rob, it IS best to support the weight of the turbo with a bracket. If you leave all the weight hanging on the exhaust flanges, stuff WILL start to crack. I've seen it. How is all the clearance on everything? Did Robert leave you enough room for everything? Thanks for helping Greg with those foot pegs. Ray
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NO worries. There is good clearance with everything. I asked him to make things tight and he did a great job.
I will take some time to figure out the best support bracket for it. Thanks.
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A buddy stopped by today from Toronto (other side of the country) and brough me a present. A quick parts exchange later and I had a nice billet stablizer which gives me much more room behind my head light.
Of course I will have to grind off the old mount and weld on another one but it is worth it.
Here is where the rear res is going to live. I am making a tap off the batter box to affix it to.
I have a brembo off an r6 but my mounts are done and it would require more welding and changing my new stailess steel push rod so I am thinking that is out.
Of course I will have to grind off the old mount and weld on another one but it is worth it.
Here is where the rear res is going to live. I am making a tap off the batter box to affix it to.
I have a brembo off an r6 but my mounts are done and it would require more welding and changing my new stailess steel push rod so I am thinking that is out.
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do you see any problems with sandwhiching the support between the header and the turbo? like a spacer plate kind a deal. I guess for that matter I could just weld a plate onto the header or turbo flange.
I have been told that many supports crack over time. I am thinking of adopting a slip type joint or rubber mount to help with heat expansion/contraction movement.
Rob, call me today after NOON, California time so we can look at the same picture together & I can show you where I would put the bracket. I also suggest that you finish the bike RIDEABLE before you powdercoat the frame. You won't know if you have to change something till you ride it & if something has to be moved or added to AFTER it's coated...... well, we know how that will go over! Ray.
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Hmmmmmm, sounds strangely familiar.
Learned that lesson waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back on my first build. Unfortuneatly that doesn't stop you having another idea the first week the bike is complete and finnished. I guess that is why I keep building more. Hey, when are we going to see one of your builds on here?
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Was a real nice day today so didn't get much done on the beast. Put on the levers and controls to check tangle with the stablizer and made up a new bracket for the mini reservoir.
Don't worry, that is not my brake hose just the mock up hose. I will be using clear "TYGON 2075". Best on the planet.
Don't worry, that is not my brake hose just the mock up hose. I will be using clear "TYGON 2075". Best on the planet.
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Here is a better shot of a good mounting area for Twister. Gunna run something from the cross member.
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Been a little busy but will be back at her with lots more pics shortly
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Ok, riding season is over for me. Plates are off the bike, final video cut and posted.
Now I am thinking of camera mounts for the new project. I had some time sorting out good camera positions on the kat and had some camera issues (vibration and electromagnetic interference) so, I am sitting and pondering some invisible mount points on this beast. front and rear.
Now I am thinking of camera mounts for the new project. I had some time sorting out good camera positions on the kat and had some camera issues (vibration and electromagnetic interference) so, I am sitting and pondering some invisible mount points on this beast. front and rear.
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Well, it's been a long time but I am back at her. The turbo won't materialize this season due to budget contraints. Since I spent a fortune on normally asperated parts I decided not to risk them in a turbo engine this year. The Efi is a go though.
Today I mounted a waterproof USB port on the beast cuz I hate running out of power on a ride.
Behind the iphone is a rack of led's so I have some light under the seat if need be.
Today I mounted a waterproof USB port on the beast cuz I hate running out of power on a ride.
Behind the iphone is a rack of led's so I have some light under the seat if need be.
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