Fusebox Melted - Advice Needed from Electrical Gurus

[GSXR7ED]

An R/R is a quick swap and something you want to fix before it takes out your stator.

Thanks for the advice. I've been riding with this set since January so not sure how it has affected the stator.

Do you think that 15 amp fuse in the 10 amp slot is a good thing?
Just saying.

I noticed that too after I took the photo...good eye! I'll get the correct fuse for it.


OP, this turned out to be a good lesson for me. Thanks for sharing your story.


Ed

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Thanks for the advice. I've been riding with this set since January so not sure how it has affected the stator.



I noticed that too after I took the photo...good eye! I'll get the correct fuse for it.


OP, this turned out to be a good lesson for me. Thanks for sharing your story.


Ed

No problem Ed, glad to.

 

[rustybronco]

Yes Redman, I will definitely be replacing the whole fuse panel with a new one.

I know it is an el cheapo fusebox, but we don't have the large selection of good quality fuseboxes over here as you guys do in the US.

So I think a new fuse box and a 15A fuse should do the trick.

Make that a good quality fuse box which may have been all or part of the problem in the first place. It might also be a good idea to temporarily put an ammeter in line to check the current flowing through that circuit.

 

[koolaid_kid]

Make that a good quality fuse box which may have been all or part of the problem in the first place. It might also be a good idea to temporarily put an ammeter in line to check the current flowing through that circuit.

Not a bad idea about the ammeter, but keep in mind that the standard ammeter (over here anyway) has a limit of 10 Amps. If you choose to do this, take the ammeter apart and see what kind of fuse it has and get a couple of spares.
Best would be to use an inductive type which clamps over the wire instead of going in line.

 

[rustybronco]

I guess I'm a bit fortunate. I bought a used ammeter that reads to 30 amps (IIRC).

***edit***
You could also measure the current flowing across a shunt.

 

[Guest]

A little pricy but definitely good quality: http://easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/PC-8/pc-8.html#pc8only

 

[koolaid_kid]

It is pricey but very high quality. It may be too big to fit in the stock location, though.

 

[850GT_Rider]

It is pricey but very high quality. It may be too big to fit in the stock location, though.

Don't know about the OP's bike, but that Eastern Beaver 8-circuit box fit just fine on the same side as the OE glass fuse holder. Had to move it a bit, but it fit just fine.

I'm on the road right now, otherwise would post a pic.

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Don't know about the OP's bike, but that Eastern Beaver 8-circuit box fit just fine on the same side as the OE glass fuse holder. Had to move it a bit, but it fit just fine.

I'm on the road right now, otherwise would post a pic.

I am the OP, my name is Don.

On the '77 GS550 there was only ONE in-line fuse. No fusebox fitted originally. So space is at a premium under the RH cover.

 

[GSXR7ED]

R/R Result

R/R Result

That is a pretty crusty old looking R/R :-s Have you you done the grounding mods? It all looks very stock.

If you think it is charging OK, then see if you can pass the revised Phase A tests.

I did the Phase A test and it passed. I previously ID'd this problem to the mechanic who ran the test back in January and the R/R was functioning correctly.

I bought my own multimeter (from Harbor Freight) and tested it yesterday with this result:

The 15 amp fuse was also replaced with a 10 so all is well in the charging department for my "T".



Ed

 

[posplayr]

I did the Phase A test and it passed. I previously ID'd this problem to the mechanic who ran the test back in January and the R/R was functioning correctly.

I bought my own multimeter (from Harbor Freight) and tested it yesterday with this result:

The 15 amp fuse was also replaced with a 10 so all is well in the charging department for my "T".



Ed

That is a good high number, more than most. However just to humor me what were your voltage drops at 5K?

 

[GSXR7ED]

Don't Remember Drops

Don't Remember Drops

That is a good high number, more than most. However just to humor me what were your voltage drops at 5K?

Hmmm...you would ask me that. I don't remember. Are you talking about going from idle to 5K rpms?



Ed

 

[posplayr]

Hmmm...you would ask me that. I don't remember. Are you talking about going from idle to 5K rpms?



Ed

Revised Phase A in this post

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1874018&postcount=14

 

[GSXR7ED]

I have it printed

I have it printed

Revised Phase A in this post

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1874018&postcount=14

I'll just have to read it carefully to understand what you're asking. I was happy that it met the requirements. (14.0-14.8)

By knowing what you're asking of the results, what are you looking for? Is that written in the Phase A write up as well?

I'll read the print out when I get home later tonite since I can't get to the hyperlink on the reference thread atm.


Ed

 

[GSXR7ED]

Oh Yeah...

Oh Yeah...

Revised Phase A in this post

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1874018&postcount=14

I thought about doing this but didn't know which was the red output wire for the R/R as well as the black output.

Like I said, I was just happy that it was charging within the 14.0-14.8


Ed

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Well, new fuse box has been installed and I hope this doesn't happen again.



I've installed a 15A fuse as the MAIN and all other fuses are now 10A including the fuse that controls the R/R charging to battery.

EDIT: The above picture shows the two left hand fuses in the incorrect positions. They should be swapped around so the 15A fuse is on the MAIN circuit and the 10A (red) fuse is on the R/R charging circuit. I have since swapped these fuses around.

Although the fuse box melted on the input side of the fuse box and it would seem this high current did not actually pass through the fuse, so maybe the fuse would not have blown anyway no matter what amperage the fuse was. All conjecture I know.

This is what is left of the fuse terminal I prised out of the melted fuse box.



Jim: I know you said it would have been a dirty connection between the fuse blade and the fuse box terminal, but do you think it could have been a loose fit between the fuse blade and the piece it fits into in the fuse box. If there was a loose fit that would have caused arcing and heat build up. What do you think. And if that was the case, how can I prevent this from happening in the future? Can I tin the metal blades of the fuse to make them a bit thicker and put more mechanical pressure on the connections from the fuse to its corresponding connection in the fuse box? I don't think there is anyway of compressing the terminals inside the fuse box to put more pressure on the connection.



What do you think?

P.S. Jim there are no connections that can be soldered in this fusebox.

 

[GSXR7ED]

^^Looks good to me...you have skills with electrical stuff on your bike.


Ed

 

[posplayr]

I'll just have to read it carefully to understand what you're asking. I was happy that it met the requirements. (14.0-14.8)

By knowing what you're asking of the results, what are you looking for? Is that written in the Phase A write up as well?

I'll read the print out when I get home later tonite since I can't get to the hyperlink on the reference thread atm.


Ed

everything has been detailed ad nauseam You don't want Voltage drops with a shunt R/R.

 

[posplayr]

Well, new fuse box has been installed and I hope this doesn't happen again.



I've installed a 15A fuse as the MAIN and all other fuses are now 10A including the fuse that controls the R/R charging to battery.

EDIT: The above picture shows the two left hand fuses in the incorrect positions. They should be swapped around so the 15A fuse is on the MAIN circuit and the 10A (red) fuse is on the R/R charging circuit. I have since swapped these fuses around.

Although the fuse box melted on the input side of the fuse box and it would seem this high current did not actually pass through the fuse, so maybe the fuse would not have blown anyway no matter what amperage the fuse was. All conjecture I know.

This is what is left of the fuse terminal I prised out of the melted fuse box.



Jim: I know you said it would have been a dirty connection between the fuse blade and the fuse box terminal, but do you think it could have been a loose fit between the fuse blade and the piece it fits into in the fuse box. If there was a loose fit that would have caused arcing and heat build up. What do you think. And if that was the case, how can I prevent this from happening in the future? Can I tin the metal blades of the fuse to make them a bit thicker and put more mechanical pressure on the connections from the fuse to its corresponding connection in the fuse box? I don't think there is anyway of compressing the terminals inside the fuse box to put more pressure on the connection.



What do you think?

P.S. Jim there are no connections that can be soldered in this fusebox.

Don,
I don't quite understand your connections or what you mean by the fuse for controlling the R/R charging? Generally you need a 15 amp fuse between the battery and the rest of the electrical system, because if anything in the electrical system shorts the battery can supply many amps to that short. Under normal operation you don't need more that 15 amps an so that is why that fuse is selected,

As far as what caused the melting, you will have to look closely at where the heat was coming from. The heat is due to the resistance coupled with current even if that current is normal. Plan and simple.

Power- watts = Voltage^2/Resistance
= Current^2*Resistance
= Current*Voltage
Take your pic they are all the same thing.

Dirty contact, loose contact that arcs a little and develops resistance getting hot and further oxidizing the surface.

If there is resistance the easiest way top find it is using a volt meter. Run the electrical and look for voltage drops where there should be none; those will hot

 

[GSXR7ED]

I'll Try To Figure It Out

I'll Try To Figure It Out

everything has been detailed ad nauseam You don't want Voltage drops with a shunt R/R.

So, I can disconnect the R/R wires independently and apply the instructions given?

The POSITIVE RED wire coming rom the R/R is located under the seat area. For the Negative, can I just put the contact on the gounded Black wire?

I'm a little reluctant to do this because I don't want to mess anything up and not be able to ride.


Ed

EDIT: I'm reading a couple of reference points and trying to understand how this charging system works:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=140109

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/cbsaunders/gs/gs_charging_system_health.pdf