Gel battery blew its "do not remove" top

[Matchless]

Honda usually uses green for ground. Theo has you on the right track. Hopefully your R/R has survived.

 

[Steve]

Some of the confusion has come up because of the original description:

three yellow wires from the RR to the stator, red to positive battery post, black to negative battery post and another black pigtail to frame, green to frame

Some R/Rs do have two wires that connect to power and two wires that connect to ground, then a single sense wire. The original description sounded like there were two separate black wires. Is it actually a single black wire into the R/R that then has the "Y" that is supposed to splice into the tail light wire? (Not the brake light wire, as Theo suggests.)

.

 

[Theo]

(Not the brake light wire, as Theo suggests.)

Oops....That's what I meant.

 

[Carter Turk]

Single black wire that then has a Y. So now green is ground? Black has nothing to do with negative battery post and goes to brake light entirely?

Bass thanks for the explanation of the black wire, makes more sense now. I won't fully understand until I'm actually connecting the wires.

Steve, my wife tells me I sometimes don't explain things well.

Theo, thanks for chiming in.

 

[Matchless]

Single black wire that then has a Y. So now green is ground? Black has nothing to do with negative battery post and goes to brake light entirely?

No, black goes to the brake switch (ignition switched power) or the rear light if you bike has no light switch, not the brake light.

If it is an ex-Honda R/R the Green wire is ground as that is Honda's colour where Suzuki uses Black/White as ground.

 

[BassCliff]

So now green is ground? Black has nothing to do with negative battery post and goes to brake light entirely?

On the Honda r/r replacement units from Mr. duaneage, YES to all the above.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Carter Turk]

Interesting all the different explanations. Turns out I was half wrong. Half dumb day.

Matchless, thanks for clarifying green is ground on Honda RR's and Bass for confirming this.

Wonder if the RR survived.

 

[Carter Turk]

Ok, so I hooked the "Y" in the black RR wire to the brake switch as Basscliff suggested, one male, one female connector. I started the bike, at idle its reading 16.85 V at the battery.
Does this suggest my new RR is toast?

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

That's pretty high. I would suspect the r/r. Is everything else connected? Is the ground wire from the r/r connected directly to the battery's negative post? Are all the lights on?


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Steve]

Ok, so I hooked the "Y" in the black RR wire to the brake switch as Basscliff suggested, one male, one female connector. I started the bike, at idle its reading 16.85 V at the battery.
Does this suggest my new RR is toast?

Are you on the live side or the switched side of the brake switch? :-k

By "switched", I mean that it would only be live when you apply the brakes.

You need to be on the live side, the side that is live when you turn on the key.

.

 

[Carter Turk]

I had the green ground attached behind the metal backing plate to the frame, but I moved to the negative battery post. All lights are working except the high beam is blown out, the tailights were too when the battery blew. All lights are working now with the exception of the high beam.

Steve I hooked the black wire with pigtail as Bass suggested, one female, one male too the
brake light plunger, the connectors right next to the battery.

Now 15.65V at idle.

However, my brake light stays lit hooked this way, so something going on there.

 

[Matchless]

However, my brake light stays lit hooked this way, so something going on there.

You should be connected to the orange/green wire which is the ignition switched power, the white wire is the brake light

 

[Carter Turk]

Matchless, pretty cool getting tips from another continent. Finding that green wire won't lower my voltage at idle though, will it?

 

[Matchless]

Matchless, pretty cool getting tips from another continent. Finding that green wire won't lower my voltage at idle though, will it?

If the black wire is connected directly to the battery it should regulate properly. Do a quick test.

I am assuming that you have little or no voltage difference (drop) at the point you are connecting the black sense wire compared to the positive pole on your battery? The regulator will raise the voltage to the battery if it detects a lower voltage on the sense wire and that may be your problem.

 

[Carter Turk]

Matchless, on your last post, it states if the black is connected to the battery, it should regulate properly, but on page 3, there's no mention of black hooking to the battery?

Now, I have green ground to frame (or should it be hooked to the negative battery post?), black with the Y going to brake switch, red to positive battery post, and 3 yellows to stator.

Brake is now working as it should.

At idle it's reading 15.6 volts at the battery. Still too high? Do I need a new Duaneage RR?
Thanks to everyone for all the help so far.

 

[Matchless]

Matchless, on your last post, it states if the black is connected to the battery, it should regulate properly, but on page 3, there's no mention of black hooking to the battery?

Now, I have green ground to frame (or should it be hooked to the negative battery post?), black with the Y going to brake switch, red to positive battery post, and 3 yellows to stator.

Brake is now working as it should.

At idle it's reading 15.6 volts at the battery. Still too high? Do I need a new Duaneage RR?
Thanks to everyone for all the help so far.

Carter Turk,

I would connect the green wire directly to the battery post or on top of the black/white ground lugs connected to the battery box, nicely cleaned.

OK, the black is a sense wire that actually senses the battery positive voltage and the R/R then adjusts its charging voltage accordingly. If the battery is fully charged the voltage of the battery is high (about 12.6-12.8 V with the battery passive) and when charging the sense wire then reduces the voltage at the R/R to lessen the voltage difference and thus also the current flowing to your battery.

Usually the sense wire is connected to a switched positive line so that it does not draw a small amount of current if it was connected directly and may then drain the battery over a long period of no use.

The problem is that you may have a voltage difference if you measure the voltage between the two battery poles and compare with the voltage between the battery ground pole and the "Y" connection for the sense wire on the brake light switch. This is called a voltage drop and is usually caused by old corroded connections, bad ignition switch contacts or commonly poor contacts in your fuse box. You are also running via 2 fuses at this point and the wires from and to them. Wired from, battery to main fuse, then to ignition switch, back to fusebox and then another fuse out to the two brake switches. You can follow these on the wiring diagram. The chances of a voltage drop on a 30 year old bike here is quite likely.

This voltage difference, which is lower at the brake light switch, will fool the R/R into thinking that it is getting that same low voltage across your battery and lift the charging voltage to your battery accordingly and start overcharging ther battery.

To prove that your R/R is working properly, temporary connect the black sense wire to the battery + post and then measure the charging voltage across the battery. If it regulates properly then you need to find a better way to connect the sense wire. The proper regulated voltage is about 14.2V over a fully charged battery, but could show up to 15.0V.

The solution if the switched battery wire is losing voltage somewhere is to either repair the connections, systematically all the way in the two wires concerned and get rid of the voltage drop or reduce it significantly.
Another solution is to do the coil relay modification which installs a completely new wire directlly from the battery to drive your coils and ignitor and then to tap into this for the sense wire as well.

Hope this makes more sense on how to use the sense wire

 

[Carter Turk]

Matchless,

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I'll need to get this sorted before I ride from Washington to Michigan in June.

 

[duaneage]

Sorry, I've been unavailable all week due to work requirements and just replied to carter.

If there are dirty connectors or bad connections at the fuse box, ignition switch, or other wire connectors this will drop the voltage at the rear brake light switch down and cause overcharging.

If the switches can't be cleaned or replaced an alternative is to plug the red output into the male connector on the black wire and the fuse box lead into the female of the other black wire connector.

It's better to monitor the bike voltage away from the battery for accurate results but in the case of really worn switches this will do.

I think it best to get rid of the bad connections that are causing low voltage to parts of the bike, The lower voltage increases current flow and heat through the bad joint. This is what causes melted connectors.

 

[Carter Turk]

Well I think I got it sorted finally. Went for a 45 mile ride today and all seemed fine. Stopped and started 3 times with no issues. Managed to get the voltage in the 14 range. Thanks for all the help.

 

[Matchless]

Well I think I got it sorted finally. Went for a 45 mile ride today and all seemed fine. Stopped and started 3 times with no issues. Managed to get the voltage in the 14 range. Thanks for all the help.

Glad you got it sorted. What did you do to get it charging properly?