GS1000G mods- big bore and fuel injection

[GS1000G Shopper]

I will likely stay around 40 PSI then, and allow the MS to adjust the duty cycle to get the proper amount. I added a wiring page for the PWM pump control, and will post it later. If I go that route, I'll likely use one of the AEM sensors since they are pipe thread. I've not heard back from the guy whose site that is on, so he may no longer offer it.

I won the engine removal battle today. I just can't understand why the intelligent people that designed these bikes cannot leave another 1/2" or so around the engine. For a while, I was wondering if the GS was a disposable bike, kind of like the Chevy Vega back in the day- save the oil & change the car. No free lunch- while the carbs are easier to R&R as compared to a Honda V4, the engine is not. When it goes back in, the head will not be on it.

I did hear back from Pit Stop Performance in Orlando. I did some research and the shop is well-liked in the KZ world, and he works on the GS as well. Prices seem reasonable, so I'll be shipping parts to him soon.

The last local machine shop I called here literally laughed when I said I had a 30 year old Suzuki engine I needed bored & a valve job. Great way to get business in what some think is a recession- I guess they are not one of the businesses that think that way, or need any new business. They are apparently out standing in their field:

 

[john82q]

Watching with interest gs shopper

The PWM pump control sounds like great idea if you can make it work, less plumbing , and less electrical power requirement, win win.

John

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

The McMaster order arrived today, and like most things some good and bad:
The stainless all thread worked well. I installed it, marked it, and cut it to length.

The 13mm x 6mm spacers worked great. UPDATE- these need to be 19mm with the center linkage.

The secondary shaft openings are different sizes on some of the TB units, so the 1/8 pipe plugs will not work on all of them. I'll need to find some plugs I can press into them.

I also read about a Honda TRX700 fuel injection pump. Seems some Suzuki quad owners don't like paying $300 for a fuel pump, and found the Honda one can be made to interchange with theirs and is less than $100 new. I have to do some more research on it, but it is a candidate for this project.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

PWM pump control research-

PWM-1: Another guy that made a controller. It looks like he may have sold it at one time, but nothing is listed for sale. He has a good writeup about the advantages of PWM for controlling DC motors such as fuel pumps. The same principle he lists for a 600 HP V8 would apply to a 90 HP inline 4. His wiring diagram is poor quality (low resolution).

More good reading here:
VaporWorx Electronic Fuel Pump Speed Control Systems

They are talking about late model V8 engines and 5 PSI fuel pressure, but the principle should be the same for smaller engines and lower pressure. I noted they claimed:
Another feature of PWM control is the reduction in the electrical requirement. For example, the 5th-generation pump requires 10 amps to run at full speed at 58psi. At cruise the PWM systems requires approximately 2-3 amps. This reduction in power also means greater alternator life.

I have PWM fan controllers on some of my project cars that use large electric fans such as the Lincoln Mark 8. These work really well, as the fan would normally spike huge amps to start. PWM allows them to "soft-start" and avoid the amps. One of these may be adaptable, using pressure as the input vs. temperature. These would be huge overkill for a <5A fuel pump, as they are designed to run 60A fans.

There is a lot of information on this, but not so many products. I'm sure I'll be able to find a few given time.

I find it interesting how a relatively inexpensive circuit ends up costing nearly $400:
Weldon fuel pump controller

Fuel on demand module


My minifuse panel just arrived, and looks like it will do the trick. I didn't realize that the unused relay sockets can be used for fuse circuits, so this will cut down or eliminate the need for inline fuses.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

Some more pics:

New 73.5mm pistons:

Not a job I'd like to do everyday:

New Bussmann fuse panel, cardboard template and sheet metal template (still waiting on 8"x8"x.125" aluminum):

The side cover fits in place with no problem.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

Panel w/o the tall cover (needed due to relays):

In place of the lower tab, I used a 1/4-20 bolt. I bent the tab down 90 degrees and drilled a hole in it. The panel needs to be spaced away from the battery more, but a longer bolt and a few nuts will do the job.

Old and new battery side panels:
|

 

[ArttuH]

There is a lot of information on this, but not so many products. I'm sure I'll be able to find a few given time.

Just in case if you are interested there are schematics of my pump controller:
http://www.iki.fi/arttuh/MSextra/pump_drw.pdf
Though it doesn't have pressure feedback so mechanical pressure regulator is still needed. The idea is to run the pump at approx. 50% power in normal riding conditions and use a general purpose output of the Megasquirt to switch it to full power when more fuel is needed. In your case you probably could run it at reduced power all the time.

I can deliver also assembled controller PCB if you want.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

Thanks for the info. The Microsquirt does not have the capacity that the larger units do.

I have a couple of Arudino microcontrollers here and have been immersed in reading how to control a DC motor (pump) using one via the PWM output pins. It looks like the trick is to use a solid state relay (SSR). Hella makes one that has a built-in heat sink and is rated at 20A at warmer temps (32A in colder ones), and it has a duty cycle of 10~90%. I can't find the current draw to activate it as yet, the Arudino is limited to 40Ma. It's only $28 on Amazon. I have the AEM 75 PSI pressure switch specs and made a calculator to obtain volts or PSI at any given point. It would just be a matter of adapting code to use the PWM outlet within the specified range. I don't think this will be too difficult to do.

I'm also looking at some PWM controllers on eBay- apparently the Chinese have taken over the market on those. They all come with a potentiometer, but if it could be replaced with the AEM pressure switch output, this may be a workable solution.

UPDATE-
Did not use the Arudino, see first post for a link to the aftermarket PWM controller.

 

[ArttuH]

Thanks for the info. The Microsquirt does not have the capacity that the larger units do.

It has at least two spare outputs.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

The cylinder and head are off to the machine shop, so things continue to move forward.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

I'm currently working on getting the values from the GSXR MAP sensor (was "free" with the throttle bodies and has a wiring connector) so it can be used with the Tuner Studio program. The program allows use of a custom MAP but I do not understand the values it requires as related to those I obtained from the sensor. UPDATE- I used a GM 1-bar MAP sensor.

After that it is on to the coolant, air intake temp, and oxygen sensors. I plan on using smaller versions of the temp sensors than are normally used with the Megasquirt (GM 3/8 pipe). Looking at what's been done, a small sensor in a ring terminal can be bolted to the rear of the head for temperature, and GM makes smaller intake sensors that are held in place in the air box with a grommet. I have about 50 GM/Delphi sensor datasheets I found on their site. The Tuner Studio software is easier to use for these sensors since you only need add three values at certain temps to calibrate them. I may run into an issue with perceived overheating as I noticed the default coolant gauge in the software only goes to 260 or so. Cylinder head temps can reach over 400 degrees from what I've seen. UPDATE- I used thermistors for both temp readings.

For the O2 sensor, I plan on looking at the underside of my blue GS1000 to see where an optimum location would be (forgot to do this before I pulled the engine ). Hopefully there will be room in the crossover tube area.

I'll be posting some updated diagrams within a few days.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

The 45mm silicone hose arrived today and it is a loose fit around the throttle bodies, but a very tight fit into the airbox. I placed one of the GSXR clamps on it and just by doing that I felt tension on it. Once the clamp was tightened it was a perfect seal. It is great when the simple solution is the best one. I am not going to cut the hose into sections until the engine is in place and I can measure the distance to the airbox. I will have enough hose to mimic the original boot length, which extended into the airbox.

After chatting with our (my term) self-canceling turn signal Guru Rusty_Bronco, I have decided to pull the self-canceling unit so I can mount the fuel injection components and (possibly) pump there. The short version is the GSXR controls do not have electronic canceling like the GS ones do, but they add a 4 way hazard flasher and a high beam flasher. They also kill the headlight while cranking.

Fuse panel final 1/8" aluminum bracket is cut & painted, and the machine shop got my parts today. I need to do some serious cleaning on the frame, as it has a layer of grime all over it from oil leaks.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

More semi-related work on the GSXR controls and it looks like I can make an extension cable for the right side controls and re-route a couple of GS wires to eliminate a bullet connector or two. I have ordered some Hitachi non-latching connectors to make the cable. The left side control will be more involved. I also picked up a Tridon electronic flasher #EP34 that will plug into the OEM socket, but the black/blue wire has to be removed and a ground wire installed. When I installed the SFV650 controls (virtually identical to the GSXR ones) the stock flasher couldn't handle the hazard flasher job, but the Tridon one worked well. It's about $12 at Advance Auto, and apparently works well with LEDs.

More research on fuel pumps. I read the Cannondale ATV uses the same pump as a Ford Ranger pickup. I found that for many years, Ford used an in-tank pump and an external inline pump for their fuel injection. I found a great deal at Rockauto for about $37 for a P-37 pump that fit generically mid to late 80's / early 90's 4 and 6 cylinder Fords. It was too good to be true, though, as I emailed the company that makes them and got the specs. It draws 7 amps. I asked if they made anything smaller and didn't hear back.

At this point, it seems like it would be least expensive to find a used GSXR in-tank pump and adapt it as the fellow with the returnless fuel system did, or try to use a new Honda 700 pump. It appears to be way too big- and I may be running out of room by the time I add the Microsquirt and Arduino boxes. The best option is the Walbro GSS414, but at $155 it's not cheap. I did find a stock Cannondale pump new for under $100, but I'm thinking it may well draw 7 amps also. Fortunately I'm not in a hurry.

 

[first timer]

this is a dumb question but what about doing a stator rewind to up you electrical output? I know in the dirt bike world you can send you stator out get it rewound for more juice and power some big baja lights? Might be worth a call to http://www.rickystator.com/ to see if they can find you more juice?

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

It may be worthwhile, but it may also exceed the cost of the Cannondale pump. In actuality, by using a PWM fuel pump controller, I think I'll only use the pump at half-power or so. I'm still researching pumps.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

More fuel pumps:
The Delphi T-11 series is

EDIT

Too small to work. It is only rated at 36 PSI and 14 LPH. See below for calculated flow rates.


More research found the smallest EFI pumps so far:
C-Series micro gear pumps

The Coreless series of pulse-free micro gear pumps is ideally suited for low flow, low power consumption applications such as fuel cells and EFI for UAVs. They are quieter (than the R-series), fully reversible (by reversing polarity), and flow rate can be easily controlled with a simple DC power supply. They are available in 6, 12 and 24 VDC . Other voltages may be available on special order basis; inquire with Flight Works. Some common features include:

• Ideally suited for low flow applications(< 400 ml/min)
• Swiss made high precision high life motors
• Much lower power consumption than R-Series
• Tighter running clearances for increased efficiency over R-Series
• Encoder options available on all models for feedback and closed loop control
• Reduction gearboxes available for ultra low flows or higher viscosity fluids

I have not found pricing for them yet. I bet they won't be cheap.



50 PSI datasheet
120 PSI datasheet

EDIT #2
In the no free lunch/Goldilocks category, it looks like these may not flow enough fuel. When I ran the pump sizing on a calc to make 90 HP through 4 injectors, I get about 583 mL/minute or 34 LPH. While this is tiny compared to car apps with 190+ LPH, these small pumps do not appear to be rated beyond 400 mL/minute, and that is while below the 43 PSI this system uses.

I noticed the flow rates were with kerosene, which is about 4 times as thick (viscosity 2.1~2.2) as gasoline (viscosity .5). Using thinner gasoline would increase the flow, and the largest pump they make when run at 18V supplies enough fuel. Since they tested at 12V, and my bike runs at 13.8~14.2V, I'd see more flow than the 12V rating anyway. One other thing I noticed with these pumps were the tiny (up to 3mm) inlet/outlet ports. A 5/16 fitting is about an 8mm.

 

[mrl1000l]

What make did you go with on the oversized pistons? Thanks for creating such a detailed thread on all of this.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

My beloved red GS had started to leak oil & smoke, so as the saying goes, "while I was at it" I figured it would be just as easy to do an 1100cc job as to redo it at 997+ cc. I also wanted to try the piston kit I found on eBay that is made in Japan (not China) and see how it holds up.

Thanks, I still have a lot more details to work out, so stay tuned.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

The tedious work on wiring the fuse panel is about 3/4 of the way done. I've tied in some wires to create a common buss for battery and switched, as well as using the original GS circuits. The panel had to have the 6mm buss stud trimmed a little, and it will need to be spaced away from the battery about a half inch. I'm using a nylon spacer up top and some 1/4-20 nuts on the lower mounting stud. The aluminum final panel came out nicely. Here are a couple of pics:
As it sits now- note recycled GS power connector. Like the replacement panel I put on the blue bike, this one will plug into the same connector as the old GS fuse box.

Pic showing nylon spacer. I also replaced the wimpy old & thin wire on the battery cable with a more robust 12 gauge wire. This wire feeds power to the entire bike's battery circuit and used to terminate in a bullet connector to the fuse box.:

I made a cable junction (saved $8 ) out of some 1/2" thick PVC I had. I drilled it for a 1/4-20 stainless bolt and countersunk the head, then filled it with JB Weld. I cut notches in each end so the mounting bolts would not interfere with the power bolt. It will attach to the right of the starter solenoid and form a junction point for anything that needs direct battery power, such as the regulator/rectifier. It is now fed by the new 12 gauge wire from the battery + terminal.

After picking up a Tridon EP34 flasher (I found these while installing new controls on the GSX-G), I took apart my old one and cut out the part of the case with the mounting tab & used JB Weld to glue them together. The Tridon will now mount where the old flasher did, and it uses less space. Win/win. I had to cut the black/blue wire to the now non-existent turn signal control unit and replace it with a ground wire. The Tridon will now plug into the OEM socket. Pics:
Old flasher w/ cover removed next to Tridon EP34:

Old cover trimmed for mounting tab:

Old mounting tab glued to new flasher:

I performed a calculation this morning that broke down all of the electrical items that will be on while riding. This does not include short-term stuff like turn signals or the brake light. The shop manual says my alternator puts out 18A and runs between 14 and 15V. Since I have an aftermarket one in place, it is rated at 20% better, or about 21.6A. Running the numbers with regular bulbs and adding in my phone charger & extra gauges, I got a demand of 12.91 amps.

If I switch to LEDs (already have them in the gauges and my electronic flasher will accommodate them elsewhere), the demand drops to 9.99A.

Estimating the power draw of the Microsquirt, Arduino pump controller, and heated O2 sensor, the total is now 12.71A. This leaves some room for a fuel pump, but not much. Using a 5A pump, the demand is 17.71, or right under the stock output. The PWM circuit should help here, as the pump will not need to be run at full speed very much, which means fewer amps. The Cannondale uses about 3A at 43 PSI.

Speaking of pumps, I found some more candidates. A web search turned up some info regarding older Moto Guzzis (MG), which use an air-cooled 1100cc fuel injected engine. Apparently their pumps are now made out of unobtanium, so they have ridden the same road I'm on now.

A page here showed how a Bosch pump was put to work, however, it exceeds the cost of the Cannondale by Walbro. Knock-off Bosch pumps can be found for about $40-50, but I am leery of using them. I did find a Bosch inline pump rated at a maximum of 4.5A, but that was at only 2.5 bar or 36 PSI.

Further searching led me to a site that sells a lot of pumps for a lot of different bikes- I counted like 255 listings for an "EFI fuel pump". 99% of them are for in-tank use, but they sell a pump for use on an 1100cc Moto Guzzi. It's about $80 and carries a lifetime warranty. I have reached out to them for more info, such as flow & amps. From what I've read, the stock MG pump was 3 bars or 43 PSI, right where I need it to be. The fact it is for an 1100cc motorcycle is good news.

There seems to be two schools of thought as to pressure regulation. One is the mechanical/return line system, and the other the PWM returnless system. I now have an adjustable regulator I can plumb in if needed, but since I have the Arduino and have written the code for it, the control parts are cheap, and I find the idea interesting, I'm going to try it first. I'm also rebuilding the petcock while it is off the tank, and I plan on sealing the tank with the remainder of the Caswell sealer I used on the GSX-G.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

I have been crunching amps to see how large a fuel pump I can use. It looks like up to 5A should be OK, especially considering the use of PWM to control it. I have inquired to some vendors to check the amps for their pumps. I've only heard back from the low-end seller, who as suspected does not have that info. I'm hoping the $80 Moto Guzzi replacement pump will be within range. If not, I have a lot of data on the Bosch pumps and will likely try one of them. I also have inquired at the aircraft micro pump place, where the sell the low volume/high pressure pumps. I'll see if anything they have will work for this.

In the process of doing this, I found a fairly trick LED headlight. It is DOT legal and has a lot of good reviews. It is over $200, but at 12.8V only draws 1.8A on low and 3.6A on high. This compares to (@12.8V) 4.29A on low and 4.69A on high for a 55/60W H4 bulb.

Truck-Lite 27270C headlight (check online & eBay for best price)

There is another one (JW Speaker 8700) that is better, but it costs over $100 more.