GS1000G mods- big bore and fuel injection

[Dogma]

Truck-Lite 27270C headlight (check online & eBay for best price)

There is another one (JW Speaker 8700) that is better, but it costs over $100 more.

Out of curiosity, how is the JW Speaker lamp better?

Anyhow, the Truck-Lite lamp does an excellent job already. If you've found something even better, great. I have an older version of the Truck-Lite on which you can see the individual LEDs. One nice thing about the Truck-Like headlights is that they were originally developed for the DOD, who requested that the beam pattern illuminate the ground close to the vehicle in addition to the DOT-spec beam pattern (so says my brother who worked on the design). I like that on the bike. The actual lumen output isn't better than incandescent, but all the photons are visible (nice and white). So the net effect is better illumination. I'd say it's better than the SilverStar I have on my 850.

What I'm trying to say is, you'll love an LED headlight.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

Next thing I looked at today was the O2 sensor location. Between my pipes off the bike and the intact blue GS1000, it looks like there will be room on the crossover tube under the oil pan. The sensor can point to the rear and I'll need to secure the wiring away from the pipe using the pipe clamp bolt (wire retainer under the head of the bolt). I found some curved O2 bungs on eBay for $6 shipped. While there, I also picked up a used finned fuel pump sleeve for $6. This will be useful in dissipating heat from the fuel pump.

The Microsquirt I plan on buying comes with a narrowband sensor. I plan on adding a wideband one so I can tune the bike, and then use the narrowband for operation.

EDIT
Test fit using some old parts I had:

The sensor could point forward and be easier to get to, but then it is in the path of oil draining out of the filter at oil changes. I think it will be best to have it point to the rear.

The fuse/power wiring is now basically done. I need to add in a couple of connectors on the bike side for my fairing & glove/charger power, and then wire in the MS & fuse wiring to the GSXR harness. I'm still lacking MAP sensor data for the GSXR and it appears none is forthcoming, so I will likely just use a GM sensor for that function. The GSXR600 throttle body harness has wiring for MAP, throttle position, and intake air temp, so the only wiring I'll need to add is for coolant (head) temp. I'm still doing some math & shopping for the two temp senders.

EDIT
Here is the completed fuse panel. I have Weatherpack connectors for the pending harness connections.

EDIT
Wiring diagram for this panel:

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

Out of curiosity, how is the JW Speaker lamp better?

Anyhow, the Truck-Lite lamp does an excellent job already. If you've found something even better, great. I have an older version of the Truck-Lite on which you can see the individual LEDs. One nice thing about the Truck-Like headlights is that they were originally developed for the DOD, who requested that the beam pattern illuminate the ground close to the vehicle in addition to the DOT-spec beam pattern (so says my brother who worked on the design). I like that on the bike. The actual lumen output isn't better than incandescent, but all the photons are visible (nice and white). So the net effect is better illumination. I'd say it's better than the SilverStar I have on my 850.

What I'm trying to say is, you'll love an LED headlight.

I based the statement from this video, which is from a place that sells both. At about 4 minutes in, they shine both against the shop wall, and you can see the difference. I dislike "reviews" where they just show the light shining while looking at it (no beam pattern). The reviewer says of the TL that for the money you can't beat it. I'm sure as time goes by the price will drop a lot.

I'm sure I'd like it, just my budget would not right now. The IPF headlight I have on two of my bikes now is a great difference over the old H4 halogen. I have the latest Phillips X-treme in the GSX-G based on some shopping I did at the time. It came from overseas (I think it was Australia), but is the name brand and it is supposed to outperform the IPF.

 

[Dogma]

That does look like it fills in better around the central spot. I'll got one fussier than you though, and say I'd like to see them both throw some light down a dark road. I'm not sure how well the two can be compared as far as the center area is concerned, based just on spots on the wall. The JWS does look significantly better outside the central spot.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

I found an interesting micro pump here. It is apparently being used in drones for the military, so I doubt it is for sale retail. It runs on 28V, but otherwise it would be great for a bike. It's less than a pound, about 3" x 1" and can put out 50 pounds/hour (31 LPH) at up to 60 psi while drawing about 1 amp. It also accepts low voltage control input.

 

[ArttuH]

There seems to be two schools of thought as to pressure regulation. One is the mechanical/return line system, and the other the PWM returnless system. I now have an adjustable regulator I can plumb in if needed, but since I have the Arduino and have written the code for it, the control parts are cheap, and I find the idea interesting, I'm going to try it first. I'm also rebuilding the petcock while it is off the tank, and I plan on sealing the tank with the remainder of the Caswell sealer I used on the GSX-G.

One thing to remember with returnless PWM regulation. You probably will need a turbine type pump to get it working properly. Normal roller cell type pumps don't handle well low flow situations. For example my Walbro pump works quite well down to 50% PWM ratio but below that it starts sound weird and current draw increases instead of decreasing.

Your project seems to progress well. It's nice to read this detailed project documentation.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

That is what I've read, and why I'm considering a Bosch pump. The lowest-amp version appears to be the "085" which has 4.5A max but only 2.5 bar (we need 3). Since it has a maximum pressure that is like 8.5 bar, it may still be viable. The next one up is the "911" pump, with 5.2A and 4 bar pressure. These are both 52mm (2") in diameter, so they are on the large side and flow way more fuel than us needed. My calcs say I'll need a max of 34 LPH, which is well below the stock pumps on most vehicles I've seen. One comment I read about the Bosch pumps was that 100 HP vehicles use pumps that can support much more power.

I really hope to hear from some of the sellers I wrote to to get the data for their pumps.

 

[tkent02]

That is what I've read, and why I'm considering a Bosch pump. The lowest-amp version appears to be the "085" which has 4.5A max but only 2.5 bar (we need 3). Since it has a maximum pressure that is like 8.5 bar, it may still be viable.

I think the pressure would only drop to 2.5 bar when it is flowing at the max flow rate which is much more than you need. Restricting the flow will raise the pressure to more than the three you need.

Not sure but I think it works this way.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

I went to the source for a couple of things today. I've emailed Rick's Electric, who made my stator, to see how many amps it will generate. I figured if anyone would know, they should. I'm waiting on a reply.

I next called Bosch tech support. They require you to ask about a specific part #, so I gave them 69414, which is from a late 70's super beetle with FI and an inline pump. It's a 1.6L 4 cylinder engine, so it would be about as close as anything. I had to get a call back, and the answer was about 9 amps! While I had the actual tech guy, I told him what I'm doing & asked if they made anything to fit. He probably has the same catalog I do, and quoted the 4.5A #085 pump. While it is rated at 36 PSI/2.5 bar, based on their other pumps delivering a lot more than the specs call for I suspect it would have no problem doing 43 PSI or 3 bar. It may exceed the 4.5A though.

Reading about other bike EFI conversions, one fellow mentioned he had a 29 amp police alternator in his Yamaha- the stock one was 19A. This sounded rather fantastic and was not documented. I don't think the GS ever had a police version, but the KZ engines did. From what I've found, there may be a difference in the stators for them:

Powersports Plus shows the PN for a 2001 KZ1000P as 21003-1327 (current, shows as fitting 96-01 KZ1000P models), and the stator for a 1979-81 KZ1000P as 21003-4001 (obsolete, fits 78-81 police & classic models) and for a 1979 KZ1000 shaft, 21003-1015 (obsolete, fits 77-81 police & other KZ1000 models).

I think the stator from a KZ can be used on a GS, but am not sure. If so, this may be one other possibility for more power.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

Bad news from Rick's Electric:
In the original equipment service manual it should tell you how many watts the stator puts out (our stator is made the same as the stock specs). Then you’ll be able to convert that to amps. Only thing is, there is no room in that system to wind for higher output so unfortunately you’re stuck with the power that it has as-is. Hopefully this is enough to do what you want!

I also heard from the place that sells the Moto Guzzi replacement pumps:
This is a turbine pump, 3/8" inlet and 5/16" outlet, with small post-style terminals that include the proper nuts/ washers/ eyelets to convert any wiring if it is different than the style of the pump.
Pressure will vary, free-flow pressure will be ~90psi, but any motorcycle or automotive application will have a method of regulating the pressure down to what the bike/ vehicle requires. We do not have specific amperage draw figures for this pump at this time.

EDIT
I looked up the MG 1100 models and found they have a 25A alternator @ 14V, 6A more than the GS has.

I may try to load-test my blue bike if I can find an affordable meter- my old multimeter only goes to 10A. The blue bike has an unknown stator and the same Compu-fire R/R. It does not put out as many volts at road RPM as the red one did (13.8 vs 14.25), but I'm using different voltmeters on them. I may also look into the possibility of adapting a Kawasaki police 1000 stator into the GS if:
1. It actually puts out a lot more power (according to Rick's this is not likely), and
2. It can be done w/o too much work

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

Lots 'o parts rolling in. I received the Microsquirt. I have a couple things to locate/relocate due to the fuse panel:
The ignitor box
The MS

Test-fitting all of them, here is what I plan on doing:
The ignitor can be attached with some Velcro to the rear fender behind the battery box. It is light enough to where this should be secure enough for it.

The MS will fit onto the battery box. The largest part of it is the wire connector, but the wires will go 90 degrees w/o too much trouble. I flattened the tabs for the flasher & turn signal unit (no longer there) so I had a nearly flat surface. The MS weighs even less than the ignitor, so I'll use some more industrial strength Velcro there. This will displace the flasher to the rear fender next to the ignitor.

I'll take some more pics as I make progress.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

I have received an email that the micro pump company has my request for quote.

Trying to find out fuel pump current draw and older bike charging system output is like pulling teeth. I was leaning towards the Moto Guzzi $80 pump I mentioned above, and then I looked at the MG charging system. It is like a car alternator and appears to be belt driven. No wonder they use a hefty fuel pump.

Next, I'm trying to definitively find out if the KZ1000 police bikes used a higher output system. If they do, then if I can adapt it to the GS1000.


The head & cylinder are done and I should have them back next week.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

I performed some power output tests today using my blue GS1000G. I forgot I had a small multimeter with an inductive input (you place it around the wire). I placed it around the + battery cable, which includes the power feed for the bike. IF it is accurate, here is what I saw:
At idle, like .5 amp or so
At 4K RPM, 8.5~9 amps

Since I didn't really have a way to load test it, I tried the high beam. There was a small drop initially and it recovered back to about the same numbers.

Next, I plugged in my heated gloves. On high, the amps dropped by about 2, so I had about 6.5 amps. Again, the high beam did not make much of a difference. As a side note, the gloves are powered directly from the battery while the headlight is on a switched circuit fed by the battery power feed.

I am going to look into getting a small battery load tester so I can get more accurate numbers. It seems like if this could be done on a GPZ1100 30 years ago it should still be possible.

EDIT
I found an online manual for the 81-83 KZ1000/1100. All models, to include the fuel injected KZ1100B show a 20A output at 8K RPM.

 

[qisteve]

When you hook up the inductive test lead to the batt + wire, turn the key on but don't start the engine. This will give you the current draw from all accessories on the bike that are turned on at that point (ignition, lighting, etc.). After starting and applying a load to get max amp output you then need to add this amount to get total alternator output. This saves the trouble of locating and attaching the clamp to the alternator output lead.

BTW, Northern tool sells a real nice variable carbon pile load load tester for $69 (US). I have one at my shop and I'm very pleased.

 

[ArttuH]

I think you are slightly over complicating this fuel pump / generator issue

Your stator rating seems to be pretty much the same than on my GS1100 (I have seen numbers between 200-250W for it). On my bike the generator was holding up fine with 5A pump, all standard lights, heated O2 sensor and so on. So if you use a pump with less than 5A current draw or throttle down a larger pump with that PWM circuit you should be fine. Especially if you replace some lights with LED versions.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

Thanks for the amp tip, I will try that and see what it says. The gloves draw surprised me, but I know it takes a good bit of power to make heat. The battery gloves (even the $170 ones) I tried before never did the job.

I likely have over-thought this, but the fuel pump is the one variable I have not yet purchased and do not want to make a costly mistake here. My gut feeling is there will be enough power, especially with PWM for the pump. If the micro pump place comes in really high, I will likely try to find the 4.5A Bosch version to use.

 

[Steve]

It has been a while since I have read through all 80+ posts, but keep one thing in mind, regarding your charging output:

That is the rating at some high engine speed, likely 5000+ rpm. Output at lower speeds, the ones you are more-likely to see every day, every mile, will be less.

.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

When you hook up the inductive test lead to the batt + wire, turn the key on but don't start the engine. This will give you the current draw from all accessories on the bike that are turned on at that point (ignition, lighting, etc.). After starting and applying a load to get max amp output you then need to add this amount to get total alternator output. This saves the trouble of locating and attaching the clamp to the alternator output lead.

BTW, Northern tool sells a real nice variable carbon pile load load tester for $69 (US). I have one at my shop and I'm very pleased.

I got 0. I think the gauge does not have sufficient sensitivity.

I saw that tool while shopping for a load tester. I need a better battery charger for the shop, and will likely try to find one that does both. In the meantime, have you ever used it to test your bike?

 

[posplayr]

The total current demand and current supplied can be measured by putting the clamp around the red wire coming directly from the r/ r . At idle you will see close to 10 amp; about 15 amps as you get to 3-4k rpm. It would be relatively straight forward to put some load resistors on to see how much additional current you can draw at all toms without lowering your voltage too much. Just need to measure at idle, 2k, 3k 4 k and 5k to see what the profile will look like. At 14.25v and 5 ohms you would draw an additional 2.85 amps. Size the resistor to the expected pump load

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

The parts from the machine shop arrived today, and look good.

I think I may have the fuel pump issue solved, just needed to go 18 years into the future (from my GS). Just as I got a set of controls from a Hayabusa, I read on this page where a fellow converted a Yamaha 1100 and used the external pump from a 1999 Hayabusa. The good news is there is a new pump engineered to fit (it looks like a small in tank unit) on eBay for $58 shipped. I have an inquiry in to the seller to get more info.

EDIT
Further research shows the Hayabusa used an in-tank style pump in an external housing. The least I've seen a used one is $150, so this may not be practical.

One other thing I have to consider here is the size of the pump for locating it. Right now, I'm looking at behind the battery. Many of the Bosch pumps are 2" / 52mm, and that is just too large.