GS1100 Problem

[pyro254750]

Im new to the forums, and hoping to be able to get some good information from the experts here.

Ive got an 83 GS1100 with around 28k miles on it. Bike is in pristine condition, purchased from someone local around atlanta who had put a vance and hines on the bike and not re-jetted in it, resulting in it not running correctly. I re-jetted the carbs, performed a valve adjustment, replaced all fluids, etc. Road the bike a while, clutch was weak, so i bought an EBC kevlar clutch kit and installed it. Bike rides awesome at this point. Yesterday when i left the house for work i heard what i thought was a valve tick, but later noticed followed road speed rather than engine rpm. by the time i got to work i was hearing a scraping/bearing noise of some sort as im slowing down below 10mph. Put the bike on the center stand and i couldn't tell if it was coming from the rear diff or the transmission, but it was definitely there. By the time i got home it sounded like somebody was blending up some sockets, and its DEFINITELY coming from the trans. Now, considering its road speed related, i am assuming it has to be something to do with the secondary drive however, i have no idea how to tackle the repair. There seems to be a bearing retainer where the driveshaft bolts to the output flange which may allow me to remove the back section of the secondary drive and at least inspect any sort of play in the bearings back there. Now, another tidbit of information, the bike never once slipped or lost power, which leads me to believe the gears of the secondary drive are still good, so what does it point to, bearings? any writeups, diagrams, or other information anyone can share on this would be greatly appreciated. An in frame repair is always preferred. I really dont want to have to split the case because the engine runs extremely well. it sems like such a waste to have to rebuil the engine just to get to the transmission. I have a gs1000 engine and trans in the basement that was not running when i got it, however, it makes no noise when rotating the output shaft in nuetral, so im also wondering if any of the parts in it will swap to the gs1100. The casing of the trans/motor looks to be identical.

Thanks in advance guys, im trying to be able to ride this thing this summer.

 

[Turtleface]

Could this be the infamous spline issue? I'm not terrible savvy when it comes to shafties, as I've never owned one. But, there is a known issue with spline durability in the rear wheel area. Not sure if it applies to your bike, but it's probably the first thing I'd check if I were in your shoes. Make sure your clutch hub nut is nice and tight as well. I'd recommend picking up a CNC hardened nut from APE. $30 bucks plus shipping seems expensive for a nut, and it's probably not the source of your problem (since you said it's tied to road speed), but it's well worth it for the piece of mind, knowing that your clutch is nice and secure.

 

[pyro254750]

im not sure what the spline issue is, however, if you are referring to the splines that tie the diff to the rear wheel, then they are fine. I removed the wheel yesterday before i left work and inspected the wheel bearing and splines and all is well. The clutch was just installed two weeks ago and is on the opposite side of the bike from the noise, so unless the nut loosening up would cause some sort of endplay issue that results in a noise on the other side of the motor, thats not it either (also i didnt touch the clutch hub nut when i installed the clutch, only the 6 bolts holding the plates in). Im leaning towards the secondary drive gears or bearings based on the location of the noise, however, ive never torn into one of these bikes before. Im going to remove the bearing retainer in the back of the case this weekend and see if it gives me any access to the secondary drive components so that i can inspect them.

 

[Baatfam]

Be careful assuming where the noise is coming from on these engines....it travels.
Many have thought they had a noise from the left side and it was really the clutch side.
Since you just replaced the clutch, I'd check that first.

it sems like such a waste to have to rebuil the engine just to get to the transmission.

Well I hope you don't have to slit the cases and it is something else, but if you do, you don't have to rebuild the engine.
Many do, since it is out of the frame, but you don't have to.

I just worked on my transmission and I just popped off the bottom case, fixed it, put it back together...never messed with the engine internals.

 

[koolaid_kid]

To avoid confusion, you should tell us which 1100 it is. The 1100E is a chain drive, the 1100G is a shaft drive. Very different, with different results.
Thanks.

 

[pyro254750]

To avoid confusion, you should tell us which 1100 it is. The 1100E is a chain drive, the 1100G is a shaft drive. Very different, with different results.
Thanks.

83 GS1100 GLD is the full model. It is the cruiser style shaft drive.

I just found the thread in this forum about another member replacing what he calls the "bevel gearshaft" which is the same component im referring to when i say secondary drive (only because thats how bikebandit labeled it when i was looking at their blowup diagrams for reference). Im going to pull the clutch cover off just to recheck the clutch (ive gotta pull it anyways. I attempted to use silicone to form a gasket and its got a very slight drip so im gonna have to purchase a gasket for it). Assuming the clutch is fine, which i will soon be confirming. Whats next, pulling the bearing retainer for the gearshaft out and inspecting? removing the motor?

 

[pyro254750]

Be careful assuming where the noise is coming from on these engines....it travels.
Many have thought they had a noise from the left side and it was really the clutch side.
Since you just replaced the clutch, I'd check that first.



Well I hope you don't have to slit the cases and it is something else, but if you do, you don't have to rebuild the engine.
Many do, since it is out of the frame, but you don't have to.

I just worked on my transmission and I just popped off the bottom case, fixed it, put it back together...never messed with the engine internals.

is it safe to assume then that once the lower case is removed that the main bearings have caps holding them in? by the diagram on bike bandit it appeared that the lower case WAS what held the main bearings, and that splitting the case would result in freeing the crank to fall out of the motor.

 

[Turtleface]

Be careful assuming where the noise is coming from on these engines....it travels.
Many have thought they had a noise from the left side and it was really the clutch side.
Since you just replaced the clutch, I'd check that first.

+1 on this. Always check what you just work on first. Another +1 on the sound traveling idea. Unless you're using a mechanic's stethoscope, it's hard to tell where a problem lies just using sound as a reference. I was positive my ungodly knocking noise was coming from the stator area on my bike, only to have it turn out to be loose clutch hub springs.

 

[Baatfam]

is it safe to assume then that once the lower case is removed that the main bearings have caps holding them in? by the diagram on bike bandit it appeared that the lower case WAS what held the main bearings, and that splitting the case would result in freeing the crank to fall out of the motor.

Well the motor will be upside down when you remove the lower case..
The crank won't go anywhere.
Remember is is a roller bearing crank, so there aren't really bearing caps in the traditional sense...

It is still a lot of work pulling the motor, so let's make sure we eliminate all other options first...

 

[pyro254750]

Well the motor will be upside down when you remove the lower case..
The crank won't go anywhere.
Remember is is a roller bearing crank, so there aren't really bearing caps in the traditional sense...

It is still a lot of work pulling the motor, so let's make sure we eliminate all other options first...

that is something i didnt know. I assumed it had cap style bearings like an oldschool v8. I had no idea it was a roller bearing. I would assume in the event it did have to be assembled that as long as the bearings roll smooth with minimal play they can just be reinstalled.

[edit] Im going to remove the clutch cover tonight and recheck everything (unless something comes up. I am getting married in 15 days so im sure there will be a surprise bachelor party in the works, and it will probably be either tonight or next sat night).

 

[Baatfam]

that is something i didnt know. I assumed it had cap style bearings like an oldschool v8. I had no idea it was a roller bearing. I would assume in the event it did have to be assembled that as long as the bearings roll smooth with minimal play they can just be reinstalled.

You won't even have to take them out to work on the trans...

Here is mine just last February...

The "E" is slight different, but the crank and motor stuff is almost the same.

With the trans in:

 

[Baatfam]

Seriously though...with only 28K, I can't imagine it is the transmission...and I can't think of a reason you would have to pull the motor to fix it.

Clutch or drive, would be my inclination.

 

[pyro254750]

That seems REALLY simple just looking at it. Im used to dealing with automatic transmissions and fuel injected diesels in my line of work, and for some reason seeing the motor apart like that really comforts me, lol. It seems as though its a very simple design with minimal room for error. It also convinces me even more that ive got a secondary drive issue. I think i need to remove the clutch cover, and the secondary drive bearing retainer to inspect.

You won't even have to take them out to work on the trans...

Here is mine just last February...

The "E" is slight different, but the crank and motor stuff is almost the same.

With the trans in:

 

[pyro254750]

Seriously though...with only 28K, I can't imagine it is the transmission...and I can't think of a reason you would have to pull the motor to fix it.

Clutch or drive, would be my inclination.

well... I should probably come clean. I dont ride my bikes hard often, but, when i do, i ride them VERY hard. WOT shifts and all. It would not surprise me if it was the transmission, although, ive never toasted one before so i dont know.

 

[pyro254750]

is it possible to remove the secondary drive gears without splitting the case? i didnt know if the bearing retainer would allow both gears to be removed, or just the rear one.

 

[Baatfam]

is it possible to remove the secondary drive gears without splitting the case? i didnt know if the bearing retainer would allow both gears to be removed, or just the rear one.

That I don't know. Never worked with a shaft drive...
Someone who knows should be along...

See if there is a factory manual at BassCliff's site: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

 

[pyro254750]

he has an owners manual, but the service manual is for the e models which are all chain drive as far as i know.

That I don't know. Never worked with a shaft drive...
Someone who knows should be along...

See if there is a factory manual at BassCliff's site: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

 

[Turtleface]

well... I should probably come clean. I dont ride my bikes hard often, but, when i do, i ride them VERY hard. WOT shifts and all. It would not surprise me if it was the transmission, although, ive never toasted one before so i dont know.

WOT shifts and redline operation will definitely loosen up your clutch hub. Ask me how I know. Check that nut, and while you're in there, go ahead and pull the hub off. Check the springs in the back, if you can spin any of them with your fingers, or if they rattle when you shake the hub, you're in need of a rebuild. With your driving style, I'd recommend a HD clutch hub rebuild, whether you need it or not. 'Cos you will, it's only a matter of time.

 

[pyro254750]

I plan on pulling it apart tonight to check. I would absolutely be thrilled if rebuilding the clutch hub is what cures this problem. In fact, id be thrilled if the solution is anything that doesnt involve removing the motor. Ive pulled one of these off the frame before, it was NOT fun.

IF the hub is loose, could that cause some loud noises to transfer to the opposing side of the motor?

WOT shifts and redline operation will definitely loosen up your clutch hub. Ask me how I know. Check that nut, and while you're in there, go ahead and pull the hub off. Check the springs in the back, if you can spin any of them with your fingers, or if they rattle when you shake the hub, you're in need of a rebuild. With your driving style, I'd recommend a HD clutch hub rebuild, whether you need it or not. 'Cos you will, it's only a matter of time.

 

[pyro254750]

WOT shifts and redline operation will definitely loosen up your clutch hub. Ask me how I know. Check that nut, and while you're in there, go ahead and pull the hub off. Check the springs in the back, if you can spin any of them with your fingers, or if they rattle when you shake the hub, you're in need of a rebuild. With your driving style, I'd recommend a HD clutch hub rebuild, whether you need it or not. 'Cos you will, it's only a matter of time.

btw, what is the 1$ throttle mod you have listed in your signature? im all about mods that are 1$