GS450 headlight/electrical issue...

[Guest]

Man I thought I got a good deal locating my SH532 here for about $60 posted to my door... could've had a series for just the extra cost of shipping! Then again that would've been weeks without the bike too...

Cheers Jim, I know what R/R I'm looking for next time!

 

[schmitty78]

So has anyone found a definite cheap source with good shipping options, in the US, for the SH775?? I'm strongly considering getting this with new wiring and connectors from easternbeaver.com, and a new stator from ElectroSport, just so I have a new, known starting basis. I'm getting tired of riding for a week or 2, then being down again. Hindsight is 20/20 they say? I should've had more motivation and done all this back in the winter! Oh well, lesson learned!

 

[schmitty78]

SH775, ElectroSport stator, wiring and connector are ordered. Now to find time and test out the wiring to make sure I didn't have a problem that might've drawn down the voltage on my last battery.....

I'll look forward to figuring out the best place to mount the new r/r.....should be interesting.

 

[Guest]

Just make sure it's somewhere it can get good air flow and you should be good to go.

I like where the Triumphs mount them... under the headlight... not sure how easy it would be to do that on our 450's though...

 

[schmitty78]

Just make sure it's somewhere it can get good air flow and you should be good to go.

I like where the Triumphs mount them... under the headlight... not sure how easy it would be to do that on our 450's though...

Under the headlight huh? That is an interesting proposition. Don't think I'm gonna try that just yet though...too much extra wiring for now. Hopefully the r/r will be here tomorrow, and I can play around with some ideas. Got the stator in today...man it's a tease not having all the other parts here yet! I'm ready to get this upgrade over with and get back to riding!

 

[Guest]

That gets very frustrating... hopefully not too long a wait though...

 

[schmitty78]

R/R looks like it won't be here until Monday. I ordered a jacket that I was real excited about getting today...well I got it, to find out it's one size too big. Not a great day here... :/

 

[schmitty78]

So, I have most of the parts I need to begin the upgrade to the SH775 r/r. Still waiting on the gasket so I can do the ElectroSport stator swap. I've been trying to search, with no real results, for a thread on here showing the recommended wiring changes. Can anyone point me to one??

I have begun some basic repairs to some of the shoddy wiring "fixes" done by POs. Here's one of the or/wh wire coming from the igniter, soldered, and ready for liquid electrical tape & shrink tubing. The original splice was just a regular red butt connector, and I could spin the thing around the wires without them moving.

And here's one that I'm trying to figure out what to do with. Since I have the Easternbeaver kit with fused positive wire, I'm wondering if this red wire with crappy inline fuse spliced to it can be removed?

Finally, here's the new SH775 goodness with Easternbeaver wiring kit and connectors.

 

[Guest]

Glad to see you tackling that wiring! PO's do make a mess of things...

I got your PM... my wiring was already setup for the 6 wire R/R when I got my bike way back in '98, so I didn't have to tackle that myself.

Note all the colours below are from my '82 wiring diagram.

It looks like what they did was pretty simple. The red/white wire from the R/R goes to the headlight and comes back as green/white to one leg of the stator.

This circuit is bypassed so that leg goes straight to the R/R, along with the yellow and blue/yellow.

Other than that, the red remains the 12v output, and the main fuse is between the battery and the R/R.

The sense wire on my R/R is hooked into the switched orange wire, but I'm not sure at which part of the circuit.

And of course black/white continues to be ground.

Hope that helps!

 

[schmitty78]

Glad to see you tackling that wiring! PO's do make a mess of things...

I got your PM... my wiring was already setup for the 6 wire R/R when I got my bike way back in '98, so I didn't have to tackle that myself.

Note all the colours below are from my '82 wiring diagram.

It looks like what they did was pretty simple. The red/white wire from the R/R goes to the headlight and comes back as green/white to one leg of the stator.

This circuit is bypassed so that leg goes straight to the R/R, along with the yellow and blue/yellow.

Other than that, the red remains the 12v output, and the main fuse is between the battery and the R/R.

The sense wire on my R/R is hooked into the switched orange wire, but I'm not sure at which part of the circuit.

And of course black/white continues to be ground.

Hope that helps!

Pete,
Your reply helped some, but my dilemma here, is to figure out what to do (or how to re-wire) the wiring I no longer have direct connections to. The new ElectroSport stator has 3 wires: blue/white, yellow, and green/white. I know these three will go directly to the new SH775 r/r. From there, the r/r has a 35A (not sure of this fuse size) inline fused positive (red) wire which will go directly to the (+) battery terminal, and of course the negative wire that will go directly to the (-) battery terminal.

So, I will have 3 wires left over. The white/green wire came out of the old stator, and connected directly to a white green, that runs to the 'Lighting Switch' (I verified in my manual's wiring diagram), and as you stated, comes back to the r/r on the white/red. What do you mean by the circuit is bypassed? What becomes of the white/green and white/red wires in the wiring harness?

The last is the red 12V output. The old r/r had a red wire that connected to the red wire in the harness, which had another red, fused wire pigtailed to it, that connected to a red lead from the (+) battery cable. That is the wire that the PO had spliced in a thinner gauge yellow wire with crappy inline fuse, in the picture I previously posted. My question here is, since I have a main fuse between the r/r and the battery, can I just connect the main red wire from the wiring harness directly to the red lead from the OEM (+) battery cable, removing the 'pigtailed' fused wire? Or does the 12V output from the (+) battery terminal to the wiring harness need to also be fused?

Any further help Pete, or from anyone, is much appreciated!

 

[posplayr]

Pete,
Your reply helped some, but my dilemma here, is to figure out what to do (or how to re-wire) the wiring I no longer have direct connections to. The new ElectroSport stator has 3 wires: blue/white, yellow, and green/white. I know these three will go directly to the new SH775 r/r. From there, the r/r has a 35A (not sure of this fuse size) inline fused positive (red) wire which will go directly to the (+) battery terminal, and of course the negative wire that will go directly to the (-) battery terminal.

So, I will have 3 wires left over. The white/green wire came out of the old stator, and connected directly to a white green, that runs to the 'Lighting Switch' (I verified in my manual's wiring diagram), and as you stated, comes back to the r/r on the white/red. What do you mean by the circuit is bypassed? What becomes of the white/green and white/red wires in the wiring harness?

These are now spare wires as you have isolated them.

The last is the red 12V output. The old r/r had a red wire that connected to the red wire in the harness, which had another red, fused wire pigtailed to it, that connected to a red lead from the (+) battery cable. That is the wire that the PO had spliced in a thinner gauge yellow wire with crappy inline fuse, in the picture I previously posted. My question here is, since I have a main fuse between the r/r and the battery, can I just connect the main red wire from the wiring harness directly to the red lead from the OEM (+) battery cable, removing the 'pigtailed' fused wire?

There has to be a fuse between anything connected to the Battery (+) so no you can not just connect that red directly to the battery you will have completely bypassed the fuse.

Or does the 12V output from the (+) battery terminal to the wiring harness need to also be fused?

Since you went direct to the battery you now just tape back the old Red wire from the harness.

Any further help Pete, or from anyone, is much appreciated!

responses in bold red quotes

BTW there is nothing wrong with what the PO did. The red wire is the main source of all power as it is connected to the junction of R/R(+) and fused Battery(+). If you need to run a small accessory , then putting in an inline fused wire with what ever size is required for the accessory is perfectly acceptable.

Personally I would connect the R/R(+) back to where it was and see how bad it is using the test procedure in Modified Phase A tests..

 

[schmitty78]

responses in bold red quotes

BTW there is nothing wrong with what the PO did. The red wire is the main source of all power as it is connected to the junction of R/R(+) and fused Battery(+). If you need to run a small accessory , then putting in an inline fused wire with what ever size is required for the accessory is perfectly acceptable.

Personally I would connect the R/R(+) back to where it was and see how bad it is using the test procedure in Modified Phase A tests..

Ok, the white/red and white/green wires are now spares. Forgive my lack of electrical experience/knowledge here, but your 2 other statements are slightly contradictory to me. I understand the need for any 12V supply coming off the battery to be fused, and that makes total sense to me. However, you also said I could tape up the red wire from the harness...so how then would the 12V get to the ignition switch? As I understand it, I would then have just the R/R (+) fused lead charging the battery, and no other 12V supply feeding the ignition switch.

From what I've gathered here now, I should now only have a red wire with inline fuse coming from the OEM (+) battery cable, connected to the red wire in the harness...but the 'pigtailed' wire can be removed. Would that be a correct statement?

My last question here would be fuse sizes. The Easternbeaver kit came with a 30A fuse for the inline fuse holder between the R/R and the battery (+) terminal. Is that the right size fuse to have? I read in one of your threads, that the main fuse should be 20 or 25A (I can't remember exactly). Secondly, if I was correct about having a fused red wire from the battery to the red wire in the harness, should that be the same value as the main fuse? The diagram in the manual doesn't state fuse size, and I can't tell on the fuse itself what size it is.

Thanks a lot!

 

[posplayr]

Ok, the white/red and white/green wires are now spares. Forgive my lack of electrical experience/knowledge here, but your 2 other statements are slightly contradictory to me.

Most of the issue is not having a marked up schematic to talk to; you seem to understand quite well.

I understand the need for any 12V supply coming off the battery to be fused, and that makes total sense to me. However, you also said I could tape up the red wire from the harness...so how then would the 12V get to the ignition switch? As I understand it, I would then have just the R/R (+) fused lead charging the battery, and no other 12V supply feeding the ignition switch.

Your bike came from the factory with a RED wire connection between the Battery and the fuse box (you have a fuse box?) That wire then goes through the main fuse (15A) and then on to where your R/R(+) red wire connects (also know as the "T").

So when you go direct to the battery you are still returning through the original; path back to the ignition switch. This is why I say you could have just as easily hooked the R/R(+) to the original place. The only reason not to is if you think your fuse box can not provide a sufficiently low impedance between the battery and the R/R.

From what I've gathered here now, I should now only have a red wire with inline fuse coming from the OEM (+) battery cable, connected to the red wire in the harness...but the 'pigtailed' wire can be removed. Would that be a correct statement?

Yes; See I though you understood pretty well.

My last question here would be fuse sizes. The Easternbeaver kit came with a 30A fuse for the inline fuse holder between the R/R and the battery (+) terminal. Is that the right size fuse to have? I read in one of your threads, that the main fuse should be 20 or 25A (I can't remember exactly). Secondly, if I was correct about having a fused red wire from the battery to the red wire in the harness, should that be the same value as the main fuse? The diagram in the manual doesn't state fuse size, and I can't tell on the fuse itself what size it is.

Thanks a lot!

If you had wired your R/R(+) into the red wire that is where your old R/R was wired then you would only need a 15A MAin fuse. Since you chose to wire the R/R(+) directly to the battery, experience has shown you will need at least a 20 amp fuse. This increasing fuse size is only partially why I don't like wiring the R/R(+) this way although most people do it that way.

 

[schmitty78]

No, I have no kind of fuse box whatsoever on this bike. Which has become a point of confusion, looking at others' tweaked wiring diagrams. The wiring diagram in my factory service manual doesn't show a fuse box either. And to point out, I haven't done any wiring yet, I have just bought the parts and am waiting on a gasket so I can begin the stator swap and move on to the wiring. Is there a particular downside to wiring the R/R (+) directly to the battery? I just went with that on the recommendation of the Easternbeaver website.

 

[posplayr]

No, I have no kind of fuse box whatsoever on this bike. Which has become a point of confusion, looking at others' tweaked wiring diagrams. The wiring diagram in my factory service manual doesn't show a fuse box either. And to point out, I haven't done any wiring yet, I have just bought the parts and am waiting on a gasket so I can begin the stator swap and move on to the wiring. Is there a particular downside to wiring the R/R (+) directly to the battery? I just went with that on the recommendation of the Easternbeaver website.

Here is the wiring diagram for your bike. It is not factory but it is in color. You could probably find the factory schematic there is you look.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=2370B62DDF9F0C6B&id=2370B62DDF9F0C6B!1031&sc=documents

It shows pretty clearly what we have been talking about; there is a fuse three somewhere from the factory.

A screen capture of the relevant part is attached. I did not even mark it up as it is sell explanatory.

I would ignore what the easterner says, unless you know the impact of teh changes to your schematic.


Quiet simply, you power the ignition switch with two wires tied together. A R/R(+) and a fused Battery(+). Tying these two wires together forms the "T"

 

[schmitty78]

Here is the wiring diagram for your bike. It is not factory but it is in color. You could probably find the factory schematic there is you look.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=2370B62DDF9F0C6B&id=2370B62DDF9F0C6B!1031&sc=documents

It shows pretty clearly what we have been talking about; there is a fuse three somewhere from the factory.

A screen capture of the relevant part is attached. I did not even mark it up as it is sell explanatory.

I would ignore what the easterner says, unless you know the impact of teh changes to your schematic.


Quiet simply, you power the ignition switch with two wires tied together. A R/R(+) and a fused Battery(+). Tying these two wires together forms the "T"

I didn't see that as a 'fuse box'. My manual shows a fuse, which I figured was the inline fuse between the battery and the red wire, part of the "T". It oddly didn't state that it is a 15A fuse, like the diagram you linked does.

 

[schmitty78]

I would ignore what the easterner says, unless you know the impact of teh changes to your schematic.

So just what is the impact of wiring the R/R (+) straight to the battery (+)?? I haven't read anything relating to this so far...

Not saying you're 'wrong', just wondering.

 

[posplayr]

So just what is the impact of wiring the R/R (+) straight to the battery (+)?? I haven't read anything relating to this so far...

Not saying you're 'wrong', just wondering.

In your case you still have to run through the same "T" connection inside of the harness regarless if you run both R/R and Battery through a fuse or not. The R/R doesnt need fusing as it can only produce 15 amps. The battery much more. By fusing the R/R (with the battery) you need a larger fuse (20+ amps v.s. stock 15 amps) which is less protection against a battery short.

 

[posplayr]

I didn't see that as a 'fuse box'. My manual shows a fuse, which I figured was the inline fuse between the battery and the red wire, part of the "T". It oddly didn't state that it is a 15A fuse, like the diagram you linked does.

Yours apparently has no fuse box just an in line 15A fuse(for the battery).

 

[Guest]

Looks like Jim's got you pretty covered, he's pretty "switched on" on the electrics (pun fully intended!)

And yep, our little 450's just have an inline 15A main fuse, that's it, no fuse box as such.

From the factory, + from the battery goes direct to the starter solenoid. The 15A inline main fuse also goes from the + terminal to the R/R and ignition switch.