GS550 Gearshifting Shaft Bent & more!

[Joneman]

Hello All,

Well I haven't been on here for a while, but thankfully I have more time on my hands now and a bit better of an idea of what it is to own an old GS bike, and the maintenance they require. I think I might even be crazy - I bought a 1979 GS1000 for a winter project! It does run so hopefully its something I can tackle (info to come on another thread).

Excuse my lack of proper terms... let me know if I get the names wrong. Also, I have searched threads for a while now and have picked up some tips and info... below are things I couldn’t quite find the info I wanted.

My chain came off my bike 1 month ago, and I have been working on fixing it up. I purchased a new DID O-ring chain and sprockets, but found out (after taking the bike apart) that the local bike shop sold me the wrong rear sprocket – they are now discontinued for the 1978 550 rear drum brake bikes. I have a new one coming from Iowa for Leers Cycle Shop – nice people!

The chain was in really bad shape (I did not realize this at first... the learning curve is steep!), but it had been looked at by the stealership so I thought things were ok (im learning). When the chain came off (didn't break thank god) it bent my gearshifting shaft (or clutch shaft, on LH side of bike). The clutch engagement rod is also bent, but I think that might have been from me taking off the sprocket cover (jammed due to the bent shaft).

Bent 'Gearshifting' Shaft

Bent Clutch engaging rod

According to my clymers manual, to get that out I had to remove the clutch. I have done so, with a little trouble (it’s not designed to be bent J) and some help. I now have the gearshifting shaft and clutch engagement rod out and ready to get straightened at the machine shop at work.





My questions are:

• Can I just re-bend these shafts, or should I try to get some used ones? The bike worked after this mishap to get me home (I probably shouldn’t have put the chain back on, but I was in the middle of nowhere!).
• Do I really require a new gasket?
  • Can I leave the old one
  • Or can I use RTV Gasket Maker?

2.5. Is this brown/tan “hard foam” like substance supposed to be there? Is it some sort of sealer?

• Should a 1? socket fit better than a 32mm socket on the front sprocket nut and the clutch hub nut? It does seem to...
• Is antiseize the same as “copperslip” and “copper grease” and can I use it on all/any types of bolts? Which bolts shouldn’t I use it on? Which bolts should get blue loctite instead?
• what strength does the rear sprocket nuts and bolts have to be? I over-torqued them and pulled threads right off (I am learning the hard way... but I know how to use a torque wrench now!). I want to buy some locally instead of ordering the OEM ones from the states (I am in Canada).

I know I have more questions, but I am getting tired of writing as I am sure you are of reading. Thanks for the help!

More pictures (unedited) are here, which I will post to this thread as I find the time: https://picasaweb.google.com/106682...renchingSummer2011?authuser=0&feat=directlink

My bike:

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Jonah, I would have cut the end off the gearshift shaft and deburred it before extracting it. But it's too late for that now.

I would replace the gear shift shaft and the clutch rod as well. They will be cheap on ebay or someone on this site may be able to donate to your cause.

I would then also replace both the gearshift and clutch rod seals as you have probably buggered the seal with the serrated end of the gear shift shaft.

PLEASE don't use the stillsons on your clutch spigots again. they will break and you will have more expense and bother. Put the bike in 6th gear with the front sprocket and chain in place and lock the back brake on as hard as you can and torque the sprocket nut up to the required torque. BTW the 1 1/4" socket is .25mm smaller than the 32mm socket. So will be a slightly better fit.

Do use a new clutch cover gasket, not silicone goo. Just a bit of grease on both sides of the gasket before fitting.

The brown/tan substance is factory sealer. DON'T touch it, leave it alone. The torque for the rear sprocket nuts are 16 to 25 lb ft.

 

[Nessism]

Yes, as Don says. Also, leave that factory sealer alone and no loctite on anything other than any phillips head screws INSIDE the clutch housing on the engine.

Oh, not to go against Don but if your machine shop can straighten the shafts I'd reuse them. Roll them on a surface plate to verify straightness (L shaped leg hanging off the edge for the shift lever shaft).

Good luck

BTW, you can get a proper Suzuki manual for free download off Basscliff's web site. Much better source of info like torque requirements than those aftermarket manuals.

 

[Joneman]

Thank you!

Thank you!

First off - thanks for the replies!

I will look into getting a new shaft... any reccomendations as to where I should pick up the seals? and the gasket (any kind of grease on it will do? I heard of using WD-40, a light oil before...)?

Suzuki_Don: Is a stillson the same as a pipe wrench i.e. this picture:

How should I tighen up that nut though? I can't put the bike into 6th gear as without the clutch assembly installed, can I (or you were talking about the sprocket nut once the clutch is re-assembled?)?

For the rear sprocket I was looking for the grade of the bolts... the actual bolts have no marking other than the suzuki "S", which tells me they are SAE grade 1. Would I be better off putting SAE grade 8, or would that have the potential to ruin the rear sprocket? I could also get OEM I guess, but they are darn expensive ($2.35 per bolt and $1.56 per nut at bikebandit). Could I locktite these in the sprocket or not worry about it as they have locking 'washers'?

The bolts:

Nessism: Thanks for the info and the tip - I now have the manual and it will be reading it before I touch the bike again.

I am going away for a couple of weeks on vacation and don't know if I will have computer access... I will be back at the end of the month and eager to get on the road - I will update then

 

[Suzuki_Don]

Yes Jonah, a stillsons is a pipe wrench. Tighten the clutch hub nut like I said. The outer clutch basket is geared to the crankshaft. The clutch inner hub (the one the large nut has to go on) is fitted to the end of one of the transmission shafts. This shaft is geared to the output shaft which carries the front sprocket through the 6th gear when you have it selected that way. If you can prevent the rear wheel from turning (by having someone stand on the foot brake) you then tighten the large nut with the gearing working for you.

 

[mike_of_bbg]

There's no reason you can't use some blue loctite on those sprocket carrier nuts. If they're not in bad shape I wouldn't worry a bit about replacing those bolts. If they are, new OEM ones are still available. Think about getting new folding washers for the rear; they're less than $2 each (09169-10006).

Check your wheel and sprocket carrier bearings while you're in there. Judging by the amount of grease I'd say you're probably still on un-sealed bearings. The drum brake models take different bearings than most of the GS line - one 6203 and one 6303 on the wheel, plus a 6205 for the sprocket carrier.

 

[Joneman]

Suzuki_Don, thanks a bunch for clarifying how that works

I'll get a pic of those bolts... there a few that might be questionable, but aren't too bad (lightly damaged threads).

I will have a look into the sprocket carrier bearings... not too sure where those go, but will look them up. Are sealed ones much better than unsealed? How do I check these bearings?

Thanks again for the replies!

 

[mike_of_bbg]

The second picture in your second post - the one showing the sprocket bolts - is the sprocket carrier. Under that spacer sticking out the center is the bearing. It comes out the other side, but there's a rubber seal over it. Just take the spacers out and stick a finger through the inner race and turn it. If it's buttery smooth you're OK. If it's anything other than buttery smooth, or if there's any play to the inner race you should replace the bearing. Same with the wheel bearings: the inner races should turn smoothly.

Sealed bearings have rubber seals between the inner and outer races to hold the pre-packaged grease in.

If there's damage to the threads on those bolts it's probably where the sprocket shifted and hit them, so not something that's going to prevent them from being tightened down. New OEM bolts are still available, and they're cheap. Using new folding washers will help ensure that they don't come loose. Sometimes when re-using those washers (not that I haven't done it!) one can only get them back to so flat, allowing them to flatten more under pressure and loosen a bit over time.

 

[Joneman]

Back & Ready to ride

Back & Ready to ride

Hello again!


So I have inspected a few things, and have some questions about them below. I am getting a list together to place an order soon - here?s my current purchase list:

1. Clutch & Gearshaft Oil Seals
2. Clutch cover gasket OEM
3. 6 rear sprocket nuts and 2 bolts
4. 3 rear sprocket locking washers, clutch hub nut locking washer, front sprocket nut locking washer (not sure if I am going to get them or not... depends on price)
5. Wheel + Sprocket bearings Pending advice

I received my ?new? sprocket from Iowa, but it looks like there is some oxidation or reaction going on it... anything I should be worried about?

Mike, the damage to the bolts was from me... I over-torqued them and ripped threads off the nuts and damaged what looks like only 2 bolts out of 6 (I attempted to remove what looks like to me the nut threads, but it was not budging)

Where should I buy this stuff? How do I know if they are selling me sealed bearing or not? The bearings seem to be ok, but I don?t really know. They are quite smooth, but there is a little bit of ?metallic chatter?/grinding.
Mike you gave part numbers... which website uses these? Or are these generic bearing numbers?



Below are the bearings that I want to confirm we are talking about (this is from bikebandit.com):
17: B1 17X47X14 BEA 1021272 $17.11
18: B1 17X40X12 BEA 1021267 $13.99
19: B1 25X52X15 BEA 1021203 $15.87

The clutch basket has no grooves in it, which is great. However, I noticed one side has possible cracking on stress lines in it? Take a look at the pic and let me know what you think...

Am I missing this washer on the clutch release bearing assembly? I don?t remember seeing it at all, so I would like to assume I don't need it...

Considering I have all of this apart, I decided to inspect the wear of the clutch. The clutch springs are good, they ranged in ?free? length from 36.87mm to 37.25mm, which is not new (38.4mm) but better than the limit (35.9mm). Clymers manual said the limit is 36.5mm... The Suzuki manual did not specify certain things the Clymers manual did, like the clutch driven plates, which were close with the Clymer specs of 1.54-1.66mm (ranged from 1.49 to 1.58, taking many measurements per plate). Should I be worried about this considering the Suzuki manual doesn?t even reference them for clutch inspection?


They were able to straighten the clutch and gearshifter shafts at work:

Cheers


P.S. Looking at Z1 yesterday for parts, I found out that they sell chains and sprockets! So much cheaper than what I paid!!! I can't believe I missed this before.

 

[Joneman]

Gearshifting shaft oil seal - tough to remove

Gearshifting shaft oil seal - tough to remove

I am trying to remove the gearshifting shaft oil seal, which I now believe has some part metal to it (a "washer" and a spring?).

I thought I better ask the experts here what I should do next, as I don't really know if thats the seal or part of the crankcase (I am hoping its the seal!).

Thanks!

 

[Nessism]

That metal ring should pry out. Try not to scratch the bore when you do it.

 

[Joneman]

Thanks + Clutch Basket

Thanks + Clutch Basket

Thanks Nessism! I will go to that today.

Also, would these "stress lines" be anything to worry about in my clutch basket?

 

[Nessism]

Those marks are just casting lines. Nothing to worry about.

 

[Joneman]

Thanks

Thanks

Those marks are just casting lines. Nothing to worry about.

Thank you for the peace of mind! Much obliged.

 

[mike_of_bbg]

Must have missed this thread a month ago when you were asking some questions. You've probably figured this out by now, but the bearing numbers are standard. You can buy standard bearings with the -2RS suffix, which indicates two rubber seals. The 4-digit numbers are standard bearing numbers (e.g., 6203-2RS). All Balls bearings are a popular choice, but they seem to be simply re-packaged KNL bearings. Digits 6-9 of the Suzuki part #'s for bearings correspond with the "standard" bearing #'s.

At least for my bike, Z1 Enterprises has the recommended bearing sizes wrong on their site. It's always best to double-check with the Suzuki part #'s.

 

[Joneman]

Cant get above 3rd gear? Post 1/2

Cant get above 3rd gear? Post 1/2

Mike - Thanks for the info. I had not figured it out, I was going to go with the current bearings as winter will soon be here :|. When I checked the bearings, there was a bit of "chatter" but otherwise they seemed fine... driving was also good, no apparent issues with the rear wheel (that I can remember... it has been too long).

Procedure:

So after much elbow grease and way too much time, I got the oil seal out (rotary tool, sharpened screw driver, makeshift pry bars etc.). I guess it had a really really good seal. Bad news: the bore is now scratched up a bit. I sanded (by hand) down the roughness a bit, and all the new seals have been installed (dipped in oil first, pushed in and then #2 gasket added on top). Clutch rod oil seal was too easy to remove compared to the gearshifting shaft - did it the recommended way with 2 drywall screws.

Watch out using the rotary tool! Flying sparks started to burn my rag that was protecting the inside of the crankcase... I tried to get it and pushed it in by accident. I am glad no fire started!

Sharpened screwdriver that finally did the seal in, but also scratched the bore.

Oil rag incident.

Gearshifting shaft Bore/seat is buggered up a bit.

Clutch Rod Seal - came out nice and easy!

New seal installed (oiled up first). There was a tiny bit of rubber that got pushed back as you can see in the first picture. I am assuming this is ok and not of any concern... I cut it off.

With a bit of gasket sealer:

 

[Joneman]

Cant get above 3rd gear? Post 2/2

Cant get above 3rd gear? Post 2/2

Question below

Post 1 Continued:

After getting these seals in and the seal holder back in place (goes over clutch oil seal and front sprocket oil seals), I used some anti-seize (copper) on the 3 small bolts and secured into place. Now onto the other side of the bike.

I removed everything in the clutch side a while back. I also found the washer for the clutch release bearing assembly that I bought because I had not seen it... it was stuck to another part :clap:.

This time I removed as much gasket with a plastic scraper and a razor blade. Then I sprayed some gasket remover and let it soak for 10-20 minutes and scraped off some more. There still seems to be a bit left, but its pretty smooth. Thoughts?

I then re-installed the cam stopper (with some blue thread lock on the bolt as per the suzuki manual). When I put the gearshifting shaft back in, I had to tap it with a rubber mallet to get it through, while holding a pipe over the oil seal on the other side (when it was straightened, it was not 100% true & straight... this may be the cause of my problems right now - what I should have done was follow Suzuki_Don's expertise and bought a used, straight one).

Problem:
At this point, I followed a tip in the Clymers manual - to throw on the gear shifter temporarily and try and go through all the gears. Well the bike was in neutral, and getting into 2 and 3 was no problem. But now I can't get out of third, up or down (I was releasing the cam stopper by hand). There was no way I could shift down at all, as this setup below wasn't quite right somehow. It could shift up to somewhere between 3rd and 4th, and then not back down. I had to turn the gear "spindle" by hand (the piece the gear pins are in that the gearshifting shaft engages).

My guess is that the shaft is not straight enough and therefore its not going to shift correctly. When trying to shift into 4th, pressure on the pedal resulted in forward pressure on the shaft, not turning. Could there have been other major things happening to my gears when the chain came off? Or when I banged out the gearshifting shaft?

Many thanks for reading the long posts and your expertise!

More pics: https://picasaweb.google.com/106682...renchingSummer2011?authuser=0&feat=directlink

 

[Suzuki_Don]

A couple of points:

You should have replaced the gear shifter as suggested previously.
Gear changing will be more difficult when the outrigger support for the shaft is not in place.
Replace the sprocket and while turning the sprocket move the gear change and it should move through the gears with no problems.
One of the shafts holding the gears must be rotating for the gears to change.

 

[Joneman]

Will try and get back with results

Will try and get back with results

Don,

You are very much correct. I meant to included that point in my last post and so I've edited it to give you credit there.

The outrigger support is something I had not thought about... it makes sense that the front sprocket cover would prevent the forward motion.

Thank you for the tip - I can't wait to get off work and try it! I will post back with the results. I am slowly learning how this stuff works.

 

[Joneman]

That worked great, bit harder to get into first but I will see how it handles once its all back together.

Also, would the gearshifter shaft for a 78 GS550E fit my 550C? They should be the same engine, right? I have found one for a good price, and may need it in the future... but I should have bought it in the first place.

Thanks!