GS850 Rebuild or Oh my god what have I done?

[Daffid]

No problem GT. I've enjoyed your thread tremendously and it really was a big factor of me deciding to get dirty with my 850 vs going with something else instead.

Sadly, I don't have a compressor that will drive the sand blasing cabinet... yet. I'm struggling with that part actually. I can't decide if I want to spend 1/3 to 1/2 more and buy one unit that will do the job, but will be 3 phase (meaning I'll have to add some new wiring to the garage) or if I want to run two single phase somewhat smaller units in tandem, but lose a little (valuable) garage space as well.

@JimmyR - I saw your post about powder coating in GT's thread. I'm pro powder coat as well, but so far I've run into the problem that everyone around here thinks that I'm gold plating the stuff for what they're charging. So once I've gotten some of the mechanical stuff out of the way, and have the blasting done on a bunch of the metal bits, I'm going to try my hand at powder coating as well. I've been reading up on it and while it looks like there's a little technique and finess involved, it's really not all that tough. I figure that, between this bike, the two parts bikes, and my pick-up, I've got plenty of pieces and bits to practice on. Once I've got the hang of it I can start getting the parts I'll use on the live bike coated (and looking decent)

Here's where the paint removal stands so far.

 

[Nessism]

Those melted harness wires are from the stator wiring. Suzuki routed one leg from the stator all the way up to the front of the bike and then back to the R/R, and resistance builds up in the connectors/wires and causes a melt down.

You should plan to route your stator wires directly into the R/R and bypass the rest of the harness. You can even strip out the white/red and white/green wires from the harness completely after you do this.

Suzuki messed up on that detail, but you can fix it.

 

[Daffid]

Yeah they really did. I read the Stator Papers about a month ago and was really surprised about all of that. What I haven't been able to find yet is if there is an aftermarket R/R that will make use of that wasted phase. Or is there really no use whatsoever for it and should I not worry about it?

 

[Steve]

What I haven't been able to find yet is if there is an aftermarket R/R that will make use of that wasted phase. Or is there really no use whatsoever for it and should I not worry about it?

Don't worry, there is no "wasted phase". If your bike does not have a headlight switch (the headlight is on any time the ignition key is ON), all three phases are in use all the time already.

Any of the available R/Rs you will find will handle all three phases just fine, but most of us prefer Honda units, as they tend to be a bit more robust.

.

 

[Good Times]

Paint removal seems to be going well. Taking those loops out of the harness is a good thing. I went with the Mike's Motorsports R/R and Stator. The Honda units do seem to be the best way to go though. If my R/R bites the dust then that's what I'll replace it with.

I almost invested in Powder Coat equipment, BUT my local powder coater was:

1) very cost effective
2) knowledgeable of the process
3) an all around nice guy

It was a no brainer for me. I let him run with it and was glad I did.

 

[Daffid]

Have I mentioned that I'm jealous of all three of those points, GT?

I can pick cheap or I can pick good but we don't have one that is both so far as I have found (yet). But if I can get the hang of it I'll just have to fill that roll. I always have loved hobbies that pay for themselves. :dancing:

 

[Good Times]

I always have loved hobbies that pay for themselves.

Now you're using your noodle. :idea:

 

[Daffid]

Broken bolts

Broken bolts

Thank the Almighty the weather has finally started to cool off!! :clap:

I got home from work today, took the dogs out, made dinner for Girlfriend and I, and got situated to start working in the garage on the bike. I was going to keep stripping paint, but I really wanted to take a look inside. So I took off the breather cover and saw this:

I didn't really see anything amiss, so I kept going, taking off the valve cover:

I didn't really notice anything out of the ordinary right off. I wiped a little oil off here and there, pulled a little on the cam chain since I was under the impression that it wasn't tensioning correctly and figuring that it would be a little loose. The chain seemed tight on both sides, so that was somewhat encouraging, though maybe I'm not looking in the right place. I think I've read before that the cam chain tensioner can be a little tricky to put in correctly, and I'm fairly certain that the PO had it off. So as I was poking around in there I noticed that one of the screws for the "A" block over the cam was lose. Pulled it out and saw this:

and this:

Looked at the other blocks next to see what other surprises I might find. "C" and "D" blocks were fine for the most part, with the exception of something odd on the threads on one of the bolts on "D" block. "B" on the other hand... well, take a look.

So here's my worry - Is it going to be possible to salvage this thing with all the thread issues? I have another parts bike. Should I pull the valve cover on it and see how things look before I proceed? Or just drill and tap new screws on this one?

I did pull the stator cover off to take a look in there:

I put a wrench on the crank shaft and verified that the motor isn't locked up from sitting too long. So that, at least, was a relief.

Thoughts, gentlemen?

 

[82 GS550L Basket Case]

Thank the Almighty the weather has finally started to cool off!! :clap:

Thoughts, gentlemen?

I think that's why it was making noise. You need new springs - those are shot.
(Yes, I'm kidding. I'm new, but not quite that new.)

 

[Big T]

Well, I was going to slap your wrist for not adjusting your valves and rebuilding your camchain tensioner when I started reading this thread, but

Oh, wow

Since you have a spare motor, you might as well pull a valve cover and see what you've got on that one. It won't take but a few minutes.

The most common problem with the GS and low compression is improper valve clearances, so it's entirely possible you can pull the head off both motors and see which one is in better shape

Then, some fresh rings, gaskets and seals and 4,000 hours of wrenching and cleaning and you're good to go

As for mechanics, they're like roofers. The roofer has either the nicest or the rattiest roof on his street. The difference is, the mechanic can hide his crap work

 

[koolaid_kid]

That stator is on its way out, btw. Check the spare motor and see if it looks better.

 

[loud et]

New springs....good one.

 

[Daffid]

I pulled the cover off spare motor #1 today and was very pleased with the state of things! Looked much better, no broken bolts or stripped threads.

Some pics:

The down side is it looks like water got into the cylinders and there's rust. No idea how bad yet. I think I'm going to pull it out of the frame and tear it down further. Yay!..../sigh.

Hey Koolaid Kid, not disagreeing with you, but what are you seeing that gives you that impression? Educate my untrained eyes!

The stator on spare#1 looks like crud. Are stators interchangeable from all the different model years? I have a spare#2 that is a '79. If it looks ok could I use it? I'm thinking I'm probably better off just forking out for a new stator altogether, but I like to know my options.

Here's a pic of the stator from spare#1:

 

[Steve]

Not quite sure what's going on here, it appears to be aluminum from the head, due to over-torquing the bolt.

This one, though, appears to be a Heli-Coil that is unwrapping. Try putting a standard M6 bolt in there. If the hole is too large, it probably just needs a new Heli-Coil.

The stator on spare#1 looks like crud. Are stators interchangeable from all the different model years? I have a spare#2 that is a '79. If it looks ok could I use it? I'm thinking I'm probably better off just forking out for a new stator altogether, but I like to know my options.

'79 and older bikes have 12-pole stators. '80 and newer bikes have 18-pole stators. They are not interchangable, unless you also change the rotor on the crank.

Here's a pic of the stator from spare#1:

I'm not sure what Koolaid_Kid saw in your first stator picture, I rather liked it. Certainly a LOT better than this one. :-\\\

.

 

[Daffid]

Thanks Steve. If I'd have had to guess who would know that I'd have put my money on you.

I agree that the silver stuff left on the threads looks like the result of someone over torquing. If the springy thing is what's left of a heliacoil... Well, couple that with the two sheared bolts and everything else and I'm pretty sure I don't want to mess with that head any longer. I've been doing my homework the last couple of days and I'll be diving into pulling both heads this week after work.

Stuff is about to get real up in here.

 

[Good Times]

Go for it Daffid. I think that is a good option. Since you have another head it will save you a lot of head ache.

 

[Daffid]

Hold the head-ache

Hold the head-ache

What a weekend! I finally finished some other projects around the garage and got the chance to work on the bike today! I dropped the exhaust off the spare motor, pulled the head... I'm not often at a loss for words, but I'm not sure what to say. Carbon... If I were to go looking for the raw materials to start a new carbon-based life form, this engine block is all the farther I would have had to look for the carbon. All except for cylinder 4 that is. Here there be rust! Lets take a look:

That's 1 on top and 2 on bottom.

That's 3 on bottom and 4 on top.

This is the bottom of the head, 1 on the right:

Drumroll please!:

That's number 4 on the left. Now in the process of removing the head two of the exhaust bolts broke. I thought I was doing well at getting them out, about a quarter turn, a little PB Blaster, quarter turn back in, let it sit, wash-rinse-repeat. It worked on all the rest of them, and most of them were pretty well seized up, but I didn't luck out on these two. I have enough sticking out to grab a hold of, but I'll have to be careful getting them the rest of the way out. If I can get those two out, I'll not have a bad set of threads on the whole thing.

On the other hand... This thing has seen better days. My smoker, well broken in piece of equipment that it is, still doesn't have the buildup that this thing has! Oi... But what really worried me was the rust. I went to work on it with simple green and a brass brush. That didn't get me terribly far, but it got the rust away pretty well. I think the carbon buildup actually protected the head and the valves from some of the rust. Its not as pitted or scarred as I thought it would be. After I got the rust out there was still a good deal of carbon buildup. I attacked that with the brass brush and some carb/choke cleaner. The result:

Now I just have to get the others cleaned up and figure out if the valves are good or if I'm going to have to drop a boat load on new valves.

 

[Daffid]

I haven't pulled the head off the original motor yet so I don't know how the cylinder walls look in there, but I'm willing to bet that they look quite a bit better. I'm not liking the idea of using the block from the parts motor if I don't have to.

 

[Good Times]

Yeeeesh....... nasty all up in there. Good work today though.

 

[Daffid]

Thanks GT!

This is #3 after I tore into it last night:

So I'm a little concerned about the valves. I still haven't figured out how I'm going to depress them to inspect the seating, but beyond that, there appears to be some kind of coating on them that is coming off? Do they have some kind of special protective layer?

Here's what I'm seeing close up:

What the heck is that?