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GS850 Rebuild or Oh my god what have I done?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Daffid
  • Start date Start date
D

Daffid

Guest
Hey hey hey!

Where to begin?... Oh yeah!

HELLO BASSCLIFF!! Sir, I know other's have said it and I'm just an echo, but you rock. Not to take the wind out of your sails for your normal welcome, but I've read over a ton of what you've had to say, and picked around a good chunck of your website. Can I just drop a big THANK YOU!!! in here right from the get go? Same goes for GoodTimes and GateKeeper. You three have been the inspiration for the madness that I'm now embarking on (and I'm glad for this!!)

So, to kick this off, I will introduce myself a tiny bit. I'm Timm, I live a little outside St. Louis, MO, and like to ride (anyone feel like an AA meeting is kicking off? lol..). I also love to tinker, take things apart, and generally fix my own crap cause A) I'm usually broke or B) to stubborn to take it to someone else and spend my money when I actually have the money to do so. Actually, I get great satisfaction out of being able to use something that I've built/repaired/etc. which is why I've got an '82 850 instead of an '02 SV650.

So I bought this little gem from a mechanic. I've learned a lesson here, but I'll start with a question: Can anyone tell me why the conventional wisdom is that a mechanic's stuff is better to own? My own experience is that a mechanic's stuff is just dressed up a little nicer to hide the flaws (no offense to anyone to wrenches for a living - just found a bad apple in the bunch perhaps). I didn't know a lot of the history of the bike when I bought it, only that he had had it apart and something about piston rings and gaskets. Ok, cool, so I should be able to scratch that off the list of potential problems! Maaaaybe not...

I get it home, ride it around for a couple of weeks and rather quickly realize that the engine is making an increasingly loud slapping (metal on metal) noise. My mechanic tells me later that this is the cam chain, that its too loose and the tensioner is already maxed out. Greaaaat. He also went ahead while he was rooting around and did a compression test. 121, 78, 90 something, and 130 were the resulting numbers if I recall correctly. So being extremely broke at the time I think him for his time, pay him what I owe, and promptly store my broken toy in the basement for 4 years. In the mean time I've been bumming rides from anyone with a bike that was willing to let me sit on it, and generally ignoring the empty hole in my pocket book that was prohibiting me from fixing my GS. Then....

I did a little bit of horse trading, bartering, wheedling and wound up with $450 in my pocket. Bought a very ratty old '86 Mazda pickup. I LOVE these old trucks. They are wicked durable. So I fixed it up little by little over the course of a couple of years as I drove it to work, until my financial state improved enough this spring to buy a newer truck. Sold the old Mazda for $1100, and suddenly found myself in possession of GS REBUILD MONEY! I swear, I think I heard a church choir give me a hallelujah. So I put some time into my garage to get some electrical outlets working and enough lighting wired in to make the local authorities wonder if I was growning funny stuff, put the motorcycle stand together and stuck my poor broken toy on top of it. For you picture junkies, here's where we started, more or less:

7423972168_783339a1d4_h.jpg


Nope, those garage windows aren't blacked out, it was 11:30 at night.

Ok, I may have gone a tiny bit overboard with the lights...

So over the last several days I've been tearing into the bike, pulling things off so that I can pull the motor, clean rust off things, etc. I have read enough to know that I might as well do all the ugly at once. I'm also just a shade OCD (anal, obsessive...whatever you want to call it) about things, so I knew if I didn't do it the first time I wouldn't be happy until I did (not to mention something might not work right). I knew I was going to run into some happy little surprises. Here's one of them:

7423972324_e1b8bdb35c_h.jpg


and another:

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This looks right...Right?? ;)

One more to grow on:

7423972180_362cab3d36_h.jpg


This was wrapped in a foot of (exceedingly grimy) electrical tape... No idea what it went to originally.

Two weeks ago, I didn't have any idea what I was doing. Now, I still don't know what I'm doing, but I have a lot of grease on my hands, and my girlfriend giggles at me when she hears me cussin in the garage. I've always wanted to know the intricacies of how a motor works, and what the little black boxes all do. That's really more why I'm doing this than anything. Yes, riding around and spending 1/3 of the $$ a month in gas will be great. Yep, I'm really going to enjoy the sense of satisfaction of showing it off to people. But I'm enjoying the heck out of learning what makes this poor beat up beast tick. I'm sure along the way I'll have a number of (less than?) poignant questions. I just hope you all get as much of a kick out of watching me as I'll get out of doing this.


**Edit** I redid the pics... Seems someone had trouble seeing things... :) :) Actually, I was doing this about 1am, and didn't notice I was using the image source location for the thumbnail on Flikr, instead of the actual image size! Whoops...
 
Last edited:
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This was wrapped in a foot of (exceedingly grimy) electrical tape... No idea what it went to originally.

Just a guess, but a black wire with that connector on it, looks like a ground wire to me. It probably went under a screw on the frame of the bike somewhere. If it is a ground, it can go under any screw that connects to the frame.
 
Great intro and story.
I just wish the pic's were larger or I could copy them and make the larger. :(
It looks like, in the tiny little picture anyway, that it is/could be a beautiful bike.
donno.gif
(tiny picture)
It sure would be nice to see a MUCH LARGER PICTURE of it though. ;)

Just one thing, could you get some BIGGER pictures?

Difficult to see those other things that you are showing for some reason. :rolleyes:



Eric
 
Well, thats all looking very usual....

New inlet rubbers needed.me thinks...
And that ring connector is an Earth lead... Either goes to an Earth.point or the - terminal.on ya battery...
not sure exactly what the first pic is though. Hope someone else can ident that for you..
Good luck with all ya work...

Xxxx
 
While I was able to get more stuff off the bike last night I didn't get it all photoed, off the phone, and onto the web. So here's where we stand this morning. Have a few errands to run then, assuming the heat of the day doesn't get to be unbearable (98F today?? really?? ugh...) I'll keep on keepin on.

52f1d1ee.jpg


I have the wiring harness off the back end entirely. I have to go invest in some Allen wrenches. I think the same little gnome that steals socks got into my tools...
 
You're off to great start. The plywood motorcycle stand is cool and you can never have too many lights in your work space.
 
Welcome Timm! Looks like you got your work cut out for you just cleaning off the grime and rust, not to mention the electrical and mechanical stuff.

Good looking bike though and you will learn a lot. I'm on the tail end of my 81 GS850G rebuild. I've certainly learned a lot and expect I've got some more to go.

Here are a few things I found very useful (besides this forum).

Your drill is your best friend. I use Orange and Blue Nyalox wheels that can be purchased at most hardware stores. http://www.dicoproducts.com/nyalox.html

These can be inserted in a drill. You can then put the drill in a vice to make a polishing station. I used mine to clean the rust off the frame, clean up countless bolts and parts. Use a sisal wheel with emory to polish the aluminum case covers (if that's what you're planning to do). Then wheels with tripoli, white rouge, etc. Beats the heck out of sanding endlessly.

Another tip, 3M rubbing compound on a paper towel will shine your rear fender right up.

Good luck to you. It's a lot of work, but it's worth it. You will learn A LOT!!!
 
Wrenching on Saturday didn't get real far. Girlfriend's last day before being gone for a week so we did the date thing instead. :)

Today on the other hand... Well, I've made some progress.

At lunch time:

ad41a00a.jpg


At Dinner:

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My parts bin has rapidly been filling up today with greasy grimy pieces and lunch baggies full of sundries. I was surprised to find some grease left in the fork down tube bearing thingy (terminology is not always my strong point...), though it was nearly petrified. Rear axle was looking pretty good though. Haven't pulled the final drive apart yet to see what it looks like, but I'm not too worried. I think I will have to swap out the ignition switch if no other options for it missing back plate present themselves:

7cacf0c8.jpg


Took the cover on the right side of the engine off to see how things looked in there:

524cfe78.jpg


And the joyous mess I found in the headlight bucket:

8007bf9a.jpg


Once I've got the motor out, and cleaned... Where do I start on it? I'm fully expecting to have to do at least 1 valve. I figure, if I have to do more than one, might as well do them all? I haven't yet dug into what grinding a valve entails, is this something I should farm out?

If I don't have to do any valves (I'm not this lucky, but I have a vivid imagination) then I'm going to have to do piston rings. I'm honestly considering doing that anyways as I'd really like to be able to get 20k+ miles out of it before I have to even consider pulling the whole top end apart. If I can keep my wrenching down to oil changes, valve adjustments, and the like I'd be really happy. I hear a lot about certain vendors for certain parts (bikebandit, boulevard, etc.). Is there a general consensus for valve/rings type parts?

Oh! Just remembered, I'm going to need a new cam chain too...

I figure I should replace every O-ring, gasket, and seal I can find. There is a LOT of gunk on this thing, so much that I can't really tell where it was coming from. I'm hearing about $200-$220 for a top-to-bottom gasket set, is that right?

Something else that's been rattling around in my noggin: I read the Stator Papers and saw that the 3rd phase coming out of that thing is... underutilized is perhaps the nicest way I can put it. It recommends a different R/R that will allow you to make use of it. Also, in a few different threads I've seen people go with a newer 'upgraded' fuse block. This leads me to the rattle - are there other electronics upgrades that I should be considering for this?

Perhaps I should also clarify the nature and intent of my rebuild here. I'm not really going for original. I'm not looking to bob, cafe, or otherwise alter the bike either. I'm willing to make smart changes that will make the bike (even more) reliable, powerful, efficient, and lower maintenance (not as worried about the last part there, but hey, if the blind squirrel finds an acorn...). I want to ride this thing to work as often as I can to skimp on driving the truck. I would also like to be able to take it out on the back roads to carve up the curvies, do some touring...shoot, maybe even do some camping with it. Once I've got this one working, then I can start playing with an actual resto of a vintage bike. :D:D:D (Please please please let it be an RE5!)

Any insight you generous folks can put my was will be very appreciated!

Still having a blast, and enjoying what I'm learning!
 
I got the motor out of the frame the night of the 25th and I've been intermittently working on degreasing the block and removing paint.

b3e7f002.jpg


Its coming along. I got a little side tracked though. GF did ceramics in school, so I decided to make her a potters wheel. Putting the finishing touches on that this weekend, along with putting insulation and drywall in on the north wall of the garage. Trying to reclaim some garage floor space.

Hope everyone has a great weekend!
 
Coming along nicely.
And thank you for the MUCH LARGER pictures. ;)
The bike DID start off looking pretty darn nice.
Once you get that wiring all cleaned up and everything else that you appear to be ready to dive into done,
it will be a FANTASTIC BIKE!!! :cool:

Missuri has some great motorcycle roads.

Eric
 
Looks like your doing a great job. Keeping the GF happy so you can do the bike is a great plan. Hope it all goes smooth and you have it on the road enjoying it soon.
 
It is getting there. Keep up the good work and keep plugging away and next thing you know, things will be going back together.
 
Having recently gone through a very similar rebuild - mine is a cafe/brat whatever GS1100G, very similar to yours - I have found that the Suzuki bottom ends are regarded as bullet proof, so I doubt you'll have to go further down than the cylinder.

My bike is an '82 and was leaking oil through the valve seals, so every time I started the bike there were clouds of smoke coming from the exhaust. So I took the head off and got it serviced by a specialist. Seeing as the bike had done around 60,000m I took the cylinder off as well and got it all honed and new rings for the pistons. I thought $400 for someone to reseat the valves, replace the seals, hone the bores and install new rings after measuring everything up to check for wear was more than fair.

It's not so hard to reinstall everything yourself afterwards. My bike has had a hard life but didn't need new valves. These are tough bikes!

The other thing the specialists did was bead blast the cylinder and head for me - included in that cost - and boy does it make a huge difference to how the bike looks. I would strongly recommend that! These jobs are the only ones I let someone else do apart from powdercoating. I would imagine that you could easily do the same.

Yes install all new SUZUKI gaskets as you go. Make sure they are Suzuki and they are not so expensive. And if you are as anal as me you'll want to replace all the rusty nuts and bolts with new as well. I was relieved to find that assembling the top end of an engine is not that hard. Anything rubber should be replaced. Once you rebuild the top end all you have to do for ages is check the valve clearances.

Stators and regulator/rectifiers are readily available and better quality versions are recommended. Easy to replace too. You seem to be starting off with a great bike. Have fun!
 
Ditto on that JimmyR, completed all of that work on my "G" last Feb. and wow what a change. I have put 4k on it since then and she runs like a new one, doesn't use oil between changes. I love my "G" and will keep her.:clap:
 
Great job so far. You'll love the final product. Just keep plugging away at it!
 
So Jimmy, it's funny you should mention blasting and powder coating....

I got a new toy today!

53a570ca.jpg


Eric, you're right, it didn't really look too bad. It needed some sprucing up to be sure, but it didn't look like a broken down piece. I don't know if I have the guts to take on a project that would have entailed that level of work.

Missouri does have some excellent roads. My dad belongs to the MSTA. He grabbed a couple of the guys from the group and we all went for a ride down to Bixby, MO on the 4th. It was hotter than H*** but a great ride. I was on his Ninja 650R most of the ride, and man... Can that thing carve a corner or what?!?! I rode the ST1300 for a little while as well, and its a great bike but I think I like the 650R better.

I'm hoping for the best when I crack the motor open and see what comes out. I know the cam chain is going to need to be replaced, and possibly the tensioner as well. If I get out of this with only having to hone the cylinders and put new rings in it I'll be SUPER happy. Hope you're right about the valves.

Thanks for the encouragement all! I'll keep posting as it comes along of course. I'm going to enjoy the sand blaster I think. I understand from reading that its tedious work but that's not going to deter me. I may even try my hand at powder coating some of the smaller pieces. I have a sinking feeling that I'll be building/buying a large oven if it goes well so that I can do my own frame. Might just make a profitable hobby out of it, who knows...

Quick question: Anyone made their own wiring harness from scratch? How'd it go? Did you stick with the same type of connectors or go with something newer/different?
 
Yeah I made my harness from scratch. I used similar connectors to stock. I found them in various colours on Ebay - there are places in the UK that have them. I also bought a heavy duty crimper to suit and it really makes the job a lot easier. For the bullet connectors I soldered everything. I simplified mine too - left out things like the clutch switch, the kickstand switch, that crazy loop that the rectifier wire does up to the headlight, gear indicator, all that stuff.

I didn't use tape to insulate either. I can't stand that stuff! I sleeved it all in PVC tubing. I actually enjoyed the whole job.
 
Have to admit Daffid, I didn't see the initial "shout out" in your first post. Thanks for that. I got so caught up in the pictures. Nice job documenting. You'll be glad you did that later. Take mucho pictures as you go. I haven't posted a lot of mine just because they were for reminders only.
As far as the harness, I was prepared to rebuild mine from scratch but didn't need to once I got into it. Hopefully you won't have to do that, unless you just want to. I almost did, but it would have significantly lengthened my build time. I'm already taking long enough.

Just make sure you have a good color diagram and study it.

I'm going to enjoy watching your build. Great bike.
 
BTW I am jealous of your blasting booth. If I had some space around here...
 
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