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help! got it together and it wont start

R

ron bayless

Forum Mentor
Past Site Supporter
After several weeks of waiting and doing some things one a day and then wating for some more I finallly got my gs 1000L 1980 model back together tonight.Now the problems:
1. it had a head gasket leak so i took the head off,replaced the square oring,the head gasket,the cylinder base gasket.I know I absolutely got it in time correctly.Trigger at 9 oclock,t marks for 1-4 right on the motor timing marks,cam with number 1 arrow about 2 mm below head surface,number "2" on exhausr cam at 12 oclock.counted 20 pins over to intake cam,had intake cam number "3" at 12 oclock,torqued all the bolts down to 6.5 pounds.
2. Put all the carbs,valve cover etc on,hit the starter button and it cranked real slowly,the lights started getting dim only when i cranked it for a moment,the hot lead of the battery got very hot after cranking it.
Now, what might be the problems? The bike has been sitting for 3 weeks and the battery is down?I now have it on a charger.The bike motor is dry because it was disassembled and the oil hasnt got to the parts inside yet? The carbs were dry and the gas hasnt got to the motor yet? The cam tensioner thing didnt go like i think it should have.Loosened the lock nut,loosened the set screw 1 1/2 turns.Then when I tried tightening the lock nut the screw turns with it.I could never get the screw to stay still when i tried to tighten the nut.Is it now too tight.The screw should still be out 1 1/2 turns shouldnt it?I have been slow and patient and very careful redoing this thing and am feeling very much a wimp right now since i seem to be the only one on this forum that cant work on these motors.They seem relatively easy.I guess I was wrong.Any help will be appreciated.Oh,i still have number 1 exhaust pipe off,cant get it to clear kickstand.I knew it would not run right,but i still figured it would turn over quickly and try to run.Thanks guys.Ron B
 
If it cranked slow without running into tight spots then you'll have to finish charging the battery before you can conclude that it won't start.
 
Sounds like you were pretty thorough. I have the instructions for inspecting and installing the tensioner but one of the members here has done a nice job of explaining for the DIYer, http://bwringer.com/gs/camchaintens.html . A couple of things to look for would be to make sure you have a good ground to the crankcase and cleaning up the starter if the battery charge doesn't help.
 
You've got at least a little oil in the cylinders right? Wouldn't hurt to squirt a little in their before firing it up. You could also crank it by hand to make sure that its turning easily

As far as the tensioner goes, you should be able to loosen the set-screw and tighten the locknut. I also don't think you need to have it turned out 1 and 1/2 turns, just enough to allow the spring to take up the tension without interference is fine.
 
mark said:
You've got at least a little oil in the cylinders right? Wouldn't hurt to squirt a little in their before firing it up. You could also crank it by hand to make sure that its turning easily

As far as the tensioner goes, you should be able to loosen the set-screw and tighten the locknut. I also don't think you need to have it turned out 1 and 1/2 turns, just enough to allow the spring to take up the tension without interference is fine.
Click to expand...
1/4 turn from seating is plenty. Normally you hold the set screw with a screwdriver while tightening the locknut with a box end wrench.
 
I'm sure you turned the engine through a few revolutions by hand (OK, by wrench) to double-check your cam timing, without encountering any interference, right? From there, once your battery's up to snuff, you could check compression. If that's OK, or reasonable, you should be ready to run, so trust yourself & let 'er rip.
 
Thanks for responses.i am really down about this right now.I will try the hot battery in the morning.I would think if the tensioner is all the way in,which it might be since i couldnt hold the screw still while i retightened the locknut,that might have the cam chain in such a bind it cant turn over freely? Maybe? And no,i didnt turn over the motor by hand a few times.If all the timing marks are correct,the cams are cinched down as they were,there is not a way for it to get out of time unless your cam chain is so worn out it jumped time after turning it over.My motor wont turn over fast enough to jump anything.I am hoping it is dry cylinders and a battery problem.Both of those can be easily remedied.
 
I always after reassembling an engine and before putting the spark plugs back in, put a 19mm wrench on the big nut on the right crankshaft end and turn the engine through three or four revolutions to be sure, noting is binding, no valves touching, and everything is smooth. It it possible you have the cam chain so tight that the engine is binding enough to overheat the starter and the wiring with too much drag. Not good to run it that way even if it will start.
without spark plugs installed, the engine should turn over as easily as a sewing machine.

Earl

ron bayless said:
Thanks for responses.i am really down about this right now.I will try the hot battery in the morning.I would think if the tensioner is all the way in,which it might be since i couldnt hold the screw still while i retightened the locknut,that might have the cam chain in such a bind it cant turn over freely? Maybe? And no,i didnt turn over the motor by hand a few times.If all the timing marks are correct,the cams are cinched down as they were,there is not a way for it to get out of time unless your cam chain is so worn out it jumped time after turning it over.My motor wont turn over fast enough to jump anything.I am hoping it is dry cylinders and a battery problem.Both of those can be easily remedied.
Click to expand...
 
ron bayless said:
Thanks for responses.i am really down about this right now.I will try the hot battery in the morning.I would think if the tensioner is all the way in,which it might be since i couldnt hold the screw still while i retightened the locknut,that might have the cam chain in such a bind it cant turn over freely? Maybe? And no,i didnt turn over the motor by hand a few times.If all the timing marks are correct,the cams are cinched down as they were,there is not a way for it to get out of time unless your cam chain is so worn out it jumped time after turning it over.My motor wont turn over fast enough to jump anything.I am hoping it is dry cylinders and a battery problem.Both of those can be easily remedied.
Click to expand...

The purpose of turning the engine over by hand is to ensure the valves don't hit the piston cuse if it does you'll have at the least a bent valve once you crank it with the starter. Regardless of how perfect you think you set the cam timing it's alot less work to turn it over by hand than to replace bent valve(s). Doesn't matter how many times you've set timing, or how good you think you are at it every one can make a mistake and even the pros that do engines everyday do the simple turn over by hand to check their work on every single engine they time.
 
Killer2600 said:
The purpose of turning the engine over by hand is to ensure the valves don't hit the piston cuse if it does you'll have at the least a bent valve once you crank it with the starter. Regardless of how perfect you think you set the cam timing it's alot less work to turn it over by hand than to replace bent valve(s). Doesn't matter how many times you've set timing, or how good you think you are at it every one can make a mistake and even the pros that do engines everyday do the simple turn over by hand to check their work on every single engine they time.
Click to expand...

Well,you certainly made your point.I didnt think i was saying i was real good at anything.But being on the mark is a yes or no situation.I was on the mark.I guess i will learn the hard way,turn the motor over and watch it come back on the mark i just set it on.I will take theplugs out though.I did find out my battery was almost dead,it took several hours to charge up.
 
It is a good ideal to turn the engine over a couple of times to recheck the timing.
If battery connections are getting hot clean the ground from the battery leading to the engine case.
 
one more thing that you all might know the answer to

one more thing that you all might know the answer to

When I tried turning the motor over with the newly charged battery it turned over faster,but not near enough to start.The positive lead to the battery got real hot again.When I was timing the bike before i got it completely back together,when the head and cams were on but the rest of the parts were not,it was easy to tun over with a wrench for about 1/2 a turn then it wouldnt turn over further.I had this happen before with car engines.You put new parts in and the first time it was started you sometines had to push it and pop the clutch,si i figured things would loosen up.Obviously i was wrong.What would make it hard to turn over with a wrench? A broken ring,or what? I was very careful with every thing i did,so this makes me mad and completely puzzled.I did not put in new rings.The valves looked so good i was amazed.The head combustion chambers had very little carbon buildup.New gaskets is all I did.Help please.
 
I think I'd be looking at the cam chain tensioner for starters. Make sure you reinstalled it as outlined in bwringer's how to page.
 
This may be obvious to you but do you have the valve cover off while turning it by hand/wrench? You might be able to see exactly what's causing it to bind up with the valve cover off.
And yes, just for a sanity check, you might want to set the cam chain tension really loose for hand/wrench turning test - just to eliminate it as a possible culprit.
Also, make sure the bike is in neutral (we've all made that mistake at least once).
 
nabrams said:
This may be obvious to you but do you have the valve cover off while turning it by hand/wrench? You might be able to see exactly what's causing it to bind up with the valve cover off.
And yes, just for a sanity check, you might want to set the cam chain tension really loose for hand/wrench turning test - just to eliminate it as a possible culprit.
Also, make sure the bike is in neutral (we've all made that mistake at least once).
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha.That's funny.Yes I did try to start it first in gear.I turned the key hit the button and nothing.I was glad at least for a moment when i realized it was in gear.I just went out and rechecked the timing by hand.The motor was turned over 2 complete revolutions by me by hand and the timing marks come up right every time.If i took the tensioner almost off,had it really loose,that wouldnt hurt anything would it?Seems like it would only let the cam chain be loose,right?
 
If the cam chain is sloppy lose, it could jump a tooth or even two, putting the cam timing out and bend a valve.

Earl

ron bayless said:
Ha ha ha.That's funny.Yes I did try to start it first in gear.I turned the key hit the button and nothing.I was glad at least for a moment when i realized it was in gear.I just went out and rechecked the timing by hand.The motor was turned over 2 complete revolutions by me by hand and the timing marks come up right every time.If i took the tensioner almost off,had it really loose,that wouldnt hurt anything would it?Seems like it would only let the cam chain be loose,right?
Click to expand...
 
I may have missed this Ron, but when you installed the tensioner did you have the rod pushed back and the screw tightened down to keep it in place? If it was extended and installed then it is exerting too much pressure on the chain and they are made so they don't back out.
 
Not too lead you too far off, but when I put mine back together I had put the fuel and vacuum lines in the wrong place. This led to me having fuel fill up the #2 cylinder.:oops:
What ended up making me realize this was when I first tried to start it by starter was that it turned over twice and then would go no more.
You can't compress liquid.
I don't know if this is your issue or not, but might be worth a look.:-s
Once I got the lines going the right way, it took about 3-4 minutes before she fired right up.
Thankfully everything did turn out ok for me.
 
crag antler said:
Not too lead you too far off, but when I put mine back together I had put the fuel and vacuum lines in the wrong place. This led to me having fuel fill up the #2 cylinder.:oops:
What ended up making me realize this was when I first tried to start it by starter was that it turned over twice and then would go no more.
You can't compress liquid.
I don't know if this is your issue or not, but might be worth a look.:-s
Once I got the lines going the right way, it took about 3-4 minutes before she fired right up.
Thankfully everything did turn out ok for me.
Click to expand...

No,i wish it was that though.My vacuum line goes to a spot by number 2 carbueretor.There is no way to get it in the wrong place,the fuel line is much bigger.I think the tensioner is the problem.I wont be able to find out for 2 more days since i am working nights.Thanks for the input.I appreciate all you guys help.
 
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