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Help Starting...Fresh Rebuild

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mgriz
  • Start date Start date
M

Mgriz

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This is getting frustrating to say the least. To catch everyone up I've had my cylinders honed, new rings, head rebuilt, carbs dipped in cleaner, new carb orings, dyna jet kit, new NGK plugs, etc. I had fuel leak problems (center tee), fixed them, and attempted to start the bike...No go

It appears to me that fuel is not getting to the plugs but I know that it is filling the bowls... the electrode looks a little wet but its hard to tell. My pilot screw is 1 1/2 turns out and the air is 1 3/4 turns out. Now I have a question about this, the way I set them was to screw them all the way in and backed them off from there, is that the correct method? Now of course I'm using the choke... how could fuel not be getting to the plugs??

I know the cams are correctly installed I tripple checked that, the timing is fine, it gets spark (not great spark but should be fine).

One other thing I am worried about is the oil pressure light stays on while it is cranking. This makes me nervous, I filled it to the f mark when it was on the center stand (about 3.25 qts). How should I go about checking if oil is getting distributed? I dont want to keep cranking away at it if its not getting oil. Anyhelp will be much apprechiated

EDIT: Just to clarify, the bike has K&N pods, Yoshimura exhaust, and what I think is a Yoshimura stage I cam.
 
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I don't know the answer's to all your questions but i do know that it's normal for the oil light to come on when starting the bike.

Also, are you running your stock airbox still? Try pulling your choke out all the way and turn it over. Then check ur plugs. If they are wet then you know you're getting gas, just not a good enough spark.

Or you could try the ol man's trick of putting a few drops of gas into each cylinder and see if the bike sputters. If it doesn't then, again you know you aren't getting gas to the cylinders
 
Thanks... I am still worried about the oil as I took the cam cover off and there was no sign of any oil up their (except on the cam chain) after maybe a total of 1min of cranking, maybe its not enough to get any up there...

Anyway, I'll try the gas in the cylinder next but Im starting to think that my timing is way off. It seems that the points for 1-4 are apart when the 4th cylinder passes through the timing mark on the compression stroke (right after the intake valve closes). Shouldn't it be in contact up to that point, at least thats how I understand it. Either way I cant adjust the timing to operate how I think it should... Maybe Im just tired but is it possible to have it 180 degrees out of phase. And what do I need to do to remedy this. Im confused at this point if you cant tell already. Thanks again.
 
IF you think it is 180 out Try swapping the plug wires 1&2 3&4
 
Ok so the timing is fine now, it wasn't 180 out I was just being dumb (i think). And it started!!! but it wasn't exactly the roar back to life I was hoping for. Actually it sounded exactly like it did before I ripped it all apart... not firing on all cylinders, popping, backfireing, etc.

I pulled the plugs after running it for a bit and #1 and #3 were wet (what a suprise, same ones as before). I felt the pipes 1 was stone cold but 3 had some heat however I think that might be because #4 seams to be running very hot... it almost instantly started smoking (burning the paint of the header??) only from the 4th pipe.

On the plus side, the oil pressure seams fine, there are no glaring oil leaks, and nothing exploded. But I'm getting quite discuraged and feel that I've wasted a lot of time and money into getting the bike no better than it was when I started.

Oh yeah and I checked the compression, I'm not sure if it has any bearing at this point as the rings have probably not had a chance to be seated. 1 and 3 were basically ZERO while 2 and 4 had maybe 7 KPa each.

I really need help here, you guys have helped a lot thus far and I have tried to follow all of your advice as closesly as possible... Im just not sure what to do now. Anyway, thanks again for your help.
 
You can check compression before the rings seat. It won't be at the correct level, but you should get something - not zero.

Check the valve clearances again. Make sure that the valves are not depressed at the top of the compression cycle.

You may also have some electrical problems since you said the spark was weak.
 
Did you open the throttle when you did the compression test? Be surprised how often that is overlooked. Not much air will be pulled into the cylinders with the carbs closed. Might explain the really low readings. And I agree..coils. Reverse the wiring and see if the problem cylinders reverse also..then you will know. Advise as to what you find out. Good luck, Terry.
 
Thanks all... yeah the throttle was wide open when I checked compression.

I'm going to go out now and switch the wires aroung, I had checked the coils before and their resistanct was on the low side but if it was a bad coil wouldn't the pair that aren't fireing be 1-4 or 2-3 not one from each of the coils. Either way I ordered new coils, Dyna S, and new wires.

I'll let you know what I find out, thanks again.
 
I'm really, really wondering if the timing is off by some odd fraction. Does anyone live nearby that could go take a look? A second set of eyes might be of use here.

There's nothing better than completing a rebuild, rolling the bike out of the garage, and hearing it spring to life with the slightest touch of the starter button. And there's nothing worse than when it doesn't. Well, maybe hearing a big CLANK CLATTER KABOOM would be worse...

Don't give up! There will be an explanation.
 
haha, yeah I am overjoyed that there was no clink clatter kaboom... belive me. I'll try and get someone to come out and take a look at the points cause they very well could be wrong. It looks as if they are functioning correctly but what do I know...

Anyway, it is not the coils. I switched the wires around and it ran the exact same. I took the cam cover off to check valve clearences (which my machinist said were dead on) and oil spilled out everywhere, so thats a good thing. But despite what my machinist said the intake valves on both 1 and 3 are tight. Now to fix that... hopefully I have the shims I need. Thanks again

Oh and why would one pipe be getting noticeably hotter than the other, I am posotive that the carbs are set up the exact same, except for maybe the pilot and air screws?
 
Yep, I did bench synch... The valves that I said were tight, were VERY tight I have gotten one of them back into tolerance but I don't have the correct shim to get the other one where it should be. Maybe its time for a mad dash to as many local motorcyle shops as possible.
 
unless they are REAL reputable engine builders (we race cars) we have the machine work done and assemble it our selves...
would you like to hear about the $12,000.00 motor with no oil pressure!!!!
 
Im pretty sure a $12,000 engine with no oil pressure doesn't sound good!!

After some creative juggling of shims and a lot of luck all of the valves are in tolerance and all of the cylinders now have relatively equal compression. But its not done yet, this bike is going to fight all the way.

I can tell from the plugs that 1,2, and 4 are firing but #3 I still dont know, if the electrode and post are not wet can I assume its firing even if it has no color. Also the plug in #4 is very grey and it keeps caughing out the carbs. Like I said the carbs are spotless, new orings, DJ kit w/ 138 main jet, e-clip 3rd from the top, pilot screw 1 1/2 turns out, and air screw 1 3/4 turns out. Thanks again for all your help.
 
Mgriz said:
haha, yeah I am overjoyed that there was no clink clatter kaboom... belive me. I'll try and get someone to come out and take a look at the points cause they very well could be wrong. It looks as if they are functioning correctly but what do I know...

Anyway, it is not the coils. I switched the wires around and it ran the exact same. I took the cam cover off to check valve clearences (which my machinist said were dead on) and oil spilled out everywhere, so thats a good thing. But despite what my machinist said the intake valves on both 1 and 3 are tight. Now to fix that... hopefully I have the shims I need. Thanks again

Oh and why would one pipe be getting noticeably hotter than the other, I am posotive that the carbs are set up the exact same, except for maybe the pilot and air screws?
Click to expand...
If the carbs are way out of sync then one pipe can get a lot hotter than the others.

Set the valve clearances then move on to syncing the carbs.
 
Ok so after some tinkering around and running it some more I believe it is hiting on all cylinders now, but it still sounds like crap... I pulled the plug caps while it was running and all had an effect on the engine rpm. However some effected it much more than others. I also noticed that when I pulled some of the plug caps, other than getting shocked myself I could see an arc from the wire to the block thats not normal right?? I have new coils, wires, and a Dyna S coming on thursday so Im not going to worry about this yet.

Additionally, after warming it up completely it really didnt want to idle at 1,000. It did, but it sounded like it was really strugling, would this be an effect of poor spark or possibly the carbs not being synched? Thanks for the help.
 
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