Here we go again! 88' 450 Clacking/Rattling/Shearing Noise

[vivisected]

Ok, so after i got her all fixed up i decide to go for a nice ride in the mountains of central MA (not my ideal place for a cruise, but its the best i know of in this god forsaken state... anyway, enough mass bashing) Wonderful early morning ride, stopped at a little diner, the whole nine. On the way back home, after i got off the mountains I felt a little... clickety clackety sheerity...ness (im having a really hard time describing the noise/feeling!) in my foot pegs. It was just a tiny bit. Unfortunatly over the past few weeks its gotten to the point of being to concerned to ride the bike at all. Thats a big problem for me, I drive my bike all summer long and into the winter until it snows. Its fun and all... most of the time, but to tell the truth, it saves me cash and im pretty strapped.
So heres a run down of the problem and what ive tried.

It has to do with torque, i think the mountain drive might have been a bit of an overload.

Any time I rev and let the clutch out to get going from first i hear/feel the issue and its very noticable up to and including 4th, but pretty much only when i make the bike "pull" (give it throttle and get it going faster) once i let off the throttle it gets somewhat better.

Its very similar to two peices of rotating metal spining and not meshing properly (the sound that is) hence the "sheering" description with some clacking thrown in there when i first start to pull.

Happens throughout all gears (hard to tell in 5 and 6 due to the high speed) but not in neutral or with the clutch held in.
It becomes much worse the more torque the bike is under.

Bike still rides like a champ. All systems are running great otherwise (besides the busted tach... Imma fix it one day! I swear!)

When it first started it was pretty much just when i was pulling off in first from a stand still.

I had to put on new tires to pass inspection (yearly bike inspection?!?! ohh yeah, i forgot, im in massachusetts!) and the sound went away for a couple of days! But then it came back :/

What ive tried:
Oil... dont know why i thought that would have anything to do with it

checking the chain slack(ive had noise issues before when the chain would get to loose, but they sounded completely different)

adjusting the clutch... nope, still the same


Well, thats about it. Please help!!!! Please! I mean, look at the weather out there! its killing me! (speaking of weather, the tornados that rode through here last week were some crazy sh%t! even though i live 5 miles from springfield I only saw marble sized hail. Didnt know there had been a tornado till a relative called from maryland asking if i was ok!)

Thanks GSPeoples

 

[hampshirehog]

Looks like you've diagnosed it yourself - something wrong with the clutch. May just be a loose nut in there or one of the springs has broken etc. You're going to have to pull the clutch cover and take a look.

 

[Guest]

Get it up on the centre stand and into first and see if you can hear it then. If it's load related it still might not show up but worth a try.

The real catch is going to be narrowing it down if you can only hear it on the move.

Other than that...

What state are your sprockets in?

Is the rear wheel aligned correctly?

Probably worth checking the cam chain tensioner just in case.

Can you tell if it's the left or right side at least? Left side means probably not the clutch as the clutch is on the right... if it's on the right I'd definitely check the clutch.

The other thing is checking the counter shaft sprocket to make sure it's torqued up correctly on the shaft. If it's loose (like mine was), you need to replace the sprocket and carefully check the splines on the counter shaft.

I'm sure there're more possibilities, but that's all I can come up with at the moment as it's hard unless you know where it's coming from...

 

[vivisected]

Looks like you've diagnosed it yourself - something wrong with the clutch. May just be a loose nut in there or one of the springs has broken etc. You're going to have to pull the clutch cover and take a look.

GREAT!!! sounds like a ton of fun! Yeah, i pretty much figured it might be the clutch...

 

[vivisected]

Get it up on the centre stand and into first and see if you can hear it then. If it's load related it still might not show up but worth a try.

The real catch is going to be narrowing it down if you can only hear it on the move.

Nope, doesnt make the noise when its up on the stand

What state are your sprockets in?

replaced front, rear, and chain last year

Is the rear wheel aligned correctly?

yep

Probably worth checking the cam chain tensioner just in case.

hmm... didnt think of that one, but its only when its in motion

Can you tell if it's the left or right side at least? Left side means probably not the clutch as the clutch is on the right... if it's on the right I'd definitely check the clutch.

Its REALLY hard to tell which side its coming from, but ill give it a ride tomorrow and try to pay hard attention

The other thing is checking the counter shaft sprocket to make sure it's torqued up correctly on the shaft. If it's loose (like mine was), you need to replace the sprocket and carefully check the splines on the counter shaft.

Is that the same as the front drive sprocket? That is, the little one in the front that the drive chain goes on? That was loose last year, I replaced both the front and rear sprockets and it was torqued properly when i checked it recently (one of the first things I checked). The sound is somewhat reminiscent of that, but just not exactly the same

I'm sure there're more possibilities, but that's all I can come up with at the moment as it's hard unless you know where it's coming from...

Im sure there is too :/ I have a feeling its the clutch, but i dont have great evidence. I guess i can pop off the cover (never done that before, but theres a first time for everything) and I guess I can use it as an excuse to replace the springs and plates. I hope it helps, but atleast I'll know I have a fresh clutch if it doesnt, and atleast I shouldnt have to fool with that for a while.

 

[Guest]

Nope, doesnt make the noise when its up on the stand

Bugger, that'd make it so easy

replaced front, rear, and chain last year

Cool.

yep

Cool.

hmm... didnt think of that one, but its only when its in motion

Bit of a long shot, but I figured if it's only when it's under load, then maybe it could be cam chain flapping around...

Its REALLY hard to tell which side its coming from, but ill give it a ride tomorrow and try to pay hard attention

Yeah that makes it hard...

Is that the same as the front drive sprocket? That is, the little one in the front that the drive chain goes on? That was loose last year, I replaced both the front and rear sprockets and it was torqued properly when i checked it recently (one of the first things I checked). The sound is somewhat reminiscent of that, but just not exactly the same

Yup, same one, glad you covered it off as that got me when I first got my bike, couldn't understand why there was so much backlash in the drive train until I found that little gem...

Im sure there is too :/ I have a feeling its the clutch, but i dont have great evidence. I guess i can pop off the cover (never done that before, but theres a first time for everything) and I guess I can use it as an excuse to replace the springs and plates. I hope it helps, but atleast I'll know I have a fresh clutch if it doesnt, and atleast I shouldnt have to fool with that for a while.

I do know that another guy over here in Aus (Suzuki_Don) had a bit of clatter on his 550, and it ended up being his clutch basket.

He replaced that with a second hand one in better condition and it's quiet as a mouse now apparently.

 

[vivisected]

*update* Drive chain

*update* Drive chain

So its the drive chain making the noise.
My reluctance to just tear into the clutch led to some pretty close investigation.
I rode without a helmet and found the noise to be coming in the rear.
I then decided to get down and dirty I threw my stead up on the center stand and then dropped down with my belly to the ground.
With the bike in neutral I spun the wheel and noticed that it catches like a tiny bit at a point while spinning. It hesitates a little.
Any idea what this could be? I dont see any obstructions or anything to catch the chain.
Any ideas?
I replaced the front and rear drive sprockets and chain last year, could they be bad again?
The bike still drives like a champ as far as I can tell.
Any input would be greatly appreciated
I can post a video of the chain doing its thing in neutral if that would help the diagnoses (I cant really make one of the sound it makes while riding, as i dont have that many hands!)

 

[TheCafeKid]

Have you tried cleaning and lubing the chain? To keep a chain in good shape it should be at LEAST cleaned every 500 miles (once a week). Lubing on modern Oring/Xring/XWring/Xwing fighter chains isnt as necessary (though i do it just a lil anyway) but cleaning is an absolute must.

Road grime, grit, dirt, etc get worked into the chain, and acts as sandpaper, or a file, greatly reducing the life of your chain if you dont maintain it. Its quite possible your chain is dead, along with your sprockets.

Misalignment (CRUCIAL STEP) can also cause damage to chains and sprockets in extremely short order. Simply going by the 'marks' on the swingarm, unless they're known accurate, most times isnt enough.
As well as alignment, proper attention must be paid to deflection. Your manual should tell you the amount of deflection your chain should have, loaded or unloaded, with a rider, and where to measure it. If the chain is loose, it needs adjusted (tightened with the adjustment bolts equally on the rear of the swinging arm) A loose chain can slap around as the bike moves (one side pull taught, the other slacks as the suspension moves) and make a heck of a racket... Also, just for chitsandgrins, assure that your chain guard is installed properly, and you dont have the chain rubbing it... that will make mysterious grinding noises that can make your hangy down parts shrivel in fear as well...
A properly aligned modern chain, cleaned and maintained, will last well into double digit thousand miles, but one that is not can be rendered junk within a few hundred..

 

[Guest]

+1 on TCK's advice above, and if your chain is catching at all, there is something wrong with it, whether it's from not being cleaned/lubed or whether it's just died early...

How many miles since you replaced them?

Also, give all the links a wriggle by hand and see if you can identify the stiff one(s). If it's just some gunk you may be able to clean/lube and free them up to be 100% sure if it's the source of the noise. I'd still replace it if that's the case though. Just my 2c...

 

[bubbarandi1]

here we go again 88

here we go again 88

My bike had a similar noise. New chain took care of it.

Bubbarandi

 

[tkent02]

What state are your sprockets in?

Hopefully Massachusetts.

 

[vivisected]

Chains, sprockets and drive trains ohh my!

Chains, sprockets and drive trains ohh my!

Wow, look at all the choices on sprockets and chains!!
Any suggestion on manufacturer/chain pitch/front and rear teeth amount, link type(the screw link looks intresting, is clip link ok?)?

They gots pretty coulours too!!

BTW its been about 3k since i replaced them last year, the replacements were no name... i think... i cant read chinese :/ (thats all thats on them)
BUT some inspection of my recently replaced rear tire shows that it may have been rubbing on the chain some due to a small size difference (its a 130 instead of a 120 like the specs say it shouldve been)
my fault for trusting a shop to properly choose and replace the rear tire for me. This time I chose my own, correct size tires
anyway, im sure that rubbing couldve crapped out that el cheapo chain and sprockets right quick.

 

[Guest]

Hopefully Massachusetts.

Touche :lol:

 

[Guest]

Wow, look at all the choices on sprockets and chains!!
Any suggestion on manufacturer/chain pitch/front and rear teeth amount, link type(the screw link looks intresting, is clip link ok?)?

They gots pretty coulours too!!

BTW its been about 3k since i replaced them last year, the replacements were no name... i think... i cant read chinese :/ (thats all thats on them)
BUT some inspection of my recently replaced rear tire shows that it may have been rubbing on the chain some due to a small size difference (its a 130 instead of a 120 like the specs say it shouldve been)
my fault for trusting a shop to properly choose and replace the rear tire for me. This time I chose my own, correct size tires
anyway, im sure that rubbing couldve crapped out that el cheapo chain and sprockets right quick.

That don't sound good at all! No idea what rubber + chain does for it, but I'm guessing it's not good for either...

It's years since I last rode, but this time around I've got Supersprox counter shaft and rear sprockets and a Triple S O ring chain. Only real reason I got the O ring chain was that it has the right number of links and I don't have to take any out.

Once I get on the road (hopefully this year) I'll be able to provide some feedback...

 

[Guest]

Wow, look at all the choices on sprockets and chains!!
Any suggestion on manufacturer/chain pitch/front and rear teeth amount, link type(the screw link looks intresting, is clip link ok?)?

They gots pretty coulours too!!

BTW its been about 3k since i replaced them last year, the replacements were no name... i think... i cant read chinese :/ (thats all thats on them)
BUT some inspection of my recently replaced rear tire shows that it may have been rubbing on the chain some due to a small size difference (its a 130 instead of a 120 like the specs say it shouldve been)
my fault for trusting a shop to properly choose and replace the rear tire for me. This time I chose my own, correct size tires
anyway, im sure that rubbing couldve crapped out that el cheapo chain and sprockets right quick.

I would think that would be and alignment issue, because you should be able to run that 130, tire without interference .

 

[vivisected]

I would think that would be and alignment issue, because you should be able to run that 130, tire without interference .

no, it definitely wasnt an alignment issue, thats one thing i am sure of. That tire was WAY too tight of a fit. With it perfectly aligned there was less than a cm of clearance. Either way, the new tire has plenty of clearance and should be fine now.

Any other suggestions on chains and sprockets?