how do you take out the splines from the tire

[NES07DEZ]

Hello guys, i finally found out what was wrong with my bike thanks to all you! and yes it was the splines. the theeth are all gone.
I am a little pist off i got the rear tire change on 10-25-08. the mechanic should of lubed the gear right!? I called him and he said he is not responsible, I think he his. what is you guys opinion?
well i need your help again who do you get the splines of the tire.
Is a 1982 gs 850 L
Thanks for the help.

 

[49er]

The last mechanic to fit your replacement rear tyre is not solely responsible, but shares the sline's failure with all the previous tyre fitters as well. These spines don't just fail over night. The wear is on going through a period of poor lubrication. Often sucessive tyre installers will manage to get some grit into the remaining grease and that helps to cut them out even quicker.

There are 3 retainer plates bolted to the hub that hold these splines in place. Under the retainer ring there are spigots that are shrouded by rubber shocks. These are there to take the harshness out of the drive system. You may need to pry the ring off these rubbers.

 

[doctorgonzo]

Good (and hopefully not too expensive lesson). I don't change my own tires, but I remove the wheel mysefl and take it in. Wipe out the old grease and regrease yourself before you reinstall.

 

[knotzilla]

I'ts not the responsilbilty of the mechanic to lube the splines but a good mechanic should have said something if he noticed the dry, worn spline. What I do when I get the rear tire changed is first varsol out all the grease and crap from the spline before I take it to the shop. That way no foreign objects from the shop can get into the splines and stick. I then inspect the splines of the rear unit and rear tire for objects and only grease the splines just before mounting the tire on the bike, Ted

 

[spyug]

I agree that the last guy, if he was a professional, should have spotted that and a) regreased and b) made you aware of it. Unfortunately, even the best can miss these things if they are over worked or under some pressure.

As our friend Dr G says, it is a hard lesson but a good one to ensure that you check things over yourself. Remember, you alone are responsible for your own safety and its critical when riding a bike. Don't trust anyone but yourself.

Bike maintenance is not difficult so get a manual. Get in the habit of checking your bike over regularly ( I was taught to check brakes tires ,chain and axle nuts each ride and oil levels once a week). Washing it and keeping it clean will give you a heads up when things start to go wrong. Fix things as soon as you can or small things can become big problems.

Again don't rely on others.

Ride safe.
Cheers,
Spyug

 

[slow_heavy_750]

Like the two above me said...you cant really blame the mechanic, but he should have noticed it and said something/greased it.

I been working at bike shops for 4-5 years, and any shaft drive bike I would do would always get cleaned and greased. I think ive only seen the splines fail once, and it was on an older wing

 

[bwringer]

Even with regular, loving application of the correct moly paste (it's not really grease), the 82-83 splines are weak and will fail eventually. It's just a question of when -- I've heard of them lasting anywhere from 24,000 miles to nearly 50,000 depending on care and the owner's riding habits.

To remove the old spline adapter, bend down the tabs on the retaining plates that are holding the bolt heads (I usually use a small punch or screwdriver and a few gentle hammer taps), then remove the six bolts and three retaining plates. You might need to use an impact driver (not an air tool -- the kind you hit with a hammer to twist and shock reluctant screws) with a large Phillips head bit. (You can't really remove them with a socket because they're too close to the edge of the spline adapter.)

Then use two large screwdrivers or pry bars at the same time to pry the spline adapter out evenly -- put the head of the screwdrivers in the slot for the retaining plates, then pry evenly on both. Pad the screwdrivers where the contact the wheel hub.

Installation is the reverse. Get some proper 60% moly paste from a Honda shop, and apply a small amount to each retaining plate where it wears against the body of the spline adapter and to the teeth of the spline.

Make sure you use blue Loctite on the screws. This is important! Bend the retainer tabs back up with a large pair of pliers or with a punch and hammer so they hold the bolt heads. (You may want to just order up new retaining plates if you're ordering a new spline adapter.)

Ride happy...

 

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. NES07DEZ,

Please visit my little BikeCliff website, download a manual for your bike (the 850 manual there is all-inclusive), and check out all of the maintenance resources there (mine and those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. Suzuki_Don, Mr. Roostabunny, Mr. Jethro, Mr. Matchless, Mr. MelodicMetalGod, Mr. oldryder, Mr. basic, Mr. catbed, Mr. 49er, Mr. tkent02, Mr. psyguy, Mr. duaneage, Mr. first timer, Mr. Yasser, Mr. SNott, Mr. Nessism, Mr. Griffin, Mr. Planecrazy, Mr. gravity tester, and Mr. Steve).

If you do your own maintenance, you can be sure it's done correctly. We'll help you. Please keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[doctorgonzo]

Hey bwringer, what do you think of the Moly Paste as an assemby lube. I think it's used for that a lot.

 

[Nessism]

Not a grease expert but I'd be concern about using spline grease inside my engine. Regular assembly lube is designed to disolve in oil, not sure if spline grease is formulated the same way.

 

[Planecrazy]

One thing the other guys haven't mentioned that I think is important is that it is VERY difficult to evaluate the splines without physically removing them from the hub. The reason for this is that the inner edge of the splines generally don't make contact with the splines in the final drive, and so they don't wear at all ... the result is that without actually removing them it's easy to be fooled into thinking they're just fine. Redman and I both have a set of splines lying around that look beautiful on the edge you'd see just removing the wheel, but just beyond that visible point they are stripped.

Unless you specifically ask the techs to remove the splines and inspect them (and are willing to pay the labor to do so) it is unreasonable to expect that tech to be able to tell if there is unusual wear and tear. Furthermore, you can't hold that tech or any other responsible for the failure.

Ok ... now the good news: If you keep an eye out on ebay you can generally find 1981 or older splines from an 1100G, 850G, or 1000G that will swap right in and last "forever" with regular lubrication. They are made of a harder material than the softer '82 and newer splines, AND they are generally inexpensive once you find them. You can also opt to buy a new replacement spline from the dealer. The old (good) ones are black in color, while the newer (softer) ones are bronze/gold in color.

The other good news is that the splines in the final drive are probably still in good shape because they are still made of the harder metal. Just be sure to thoroughly clean the metal filings from the shredded splines out before you regrease and reassemble the bike.

Regards,

 

[doctorgonzo]

Not a grease expert but I'd be concern about using spline grease inside my engine. Regular assembly lube is designed to disolve in oil, not sure if spline grease is formulated the same way.

When I was looking for Moly 60 and in addition to the Honda variety there are a couple of brands that have about that same Moly percentage sold as "assemby lube". Moroso makes one. I wondered if you could get dual use out of it.

 

[bwringer]

Hey bwringer, what do you think of the Moly Paste as an assemby lube. I think it's used for that a lot.

Assembly lube is a very different moly compound, with a much lower percentage of molybdenum.

The 60% moly paste for splines is actually pretty abrasive to soft metals like aluminum, and is never supposed to be used on moving parts. It would destroy bearings, seals, etc.

60% paste is The Right Stuff for preventing "fretting" wear between two harder metals (like steel spline teeth). The molybdenum particles take the load quite well and keep the steel teeth from contacting one another.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretting_Wear


Conversely, moly assembly lube and moly grease do not contain enough molybdenum to be effective for preventing spline wear.

 

[doctorgonzo]

Guess I got some good news in this thread in that my splines are 81.

 

[doctorgonzo]

Ringer answered my question. What the hell did people do before the internet (I was there and I still don't know). NO WAY IN HELL I could have attempted the things I'm doing without all this advice and info.

 

[bwringer]

Guess I got some good news in this thread in that my splines are 81.

What color are they? Some '81 models had the earlier black splines, some had the later gold-ish soft splines.

If you buy a new spline unit from Suzuki, it's a silver color (and is durable).

 

[doctorgonzo]

What color are they? Some '81 models had the earlier black splines, some had the later gold-ish soft splines.

If you buy a new spline unit from Suzuki, it's a silver color (and is durable).

Son....
of....
a....
B?!@$@#

They are goldish.

I had them off 2500 miles ago when I got new tires and they didn't even get Moly. They guy helping me said "just use this marine grease". Luckily... only 2500 miles ago. They'll get better treatment before I put this jigsaw puzzle back together.

 

[bwringer]

When I was looking for Moly 60 and in addition to the Honda variety there are a couple of brands that have about that same Moly percentage sold as "assemby lube". Moroso makes one. I wondered if you could get dual use out of it.

I didn't know there was anything else out there with close to 60% moly. Innnnnteresting.

Perhaps another difference is moly particle size. The carrier grease used in spline lube is the sticky, waterproof stuff that's hard to dissolve, so that's probably also different than something you'd want to use in an engine.

FWIW, I use an engine assembly lube that does not contain moly. It's also a cool blood red color. Great stuff, very protective, and very sticky so it stays where you put it.
http://permatex.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/42302/81950


I'm on my second $10 tube of Honda spline paste in ten years of working on my bikes and many other shafties. My first tube is still about 1/3 full. It's not a major expense.

Same with assembly lube -- only about 1/10 of the $5 bottle I have has been used after building three engines with it. There's no point in economizing on these vital substances.

 

[Giblet]

I NOW grease my splines at every tire change or if I pull the rear wheel for any reason. Redman was present when the hub adapter failed on my first Texas hill country ride. It gave way as I attempted to ride up a small incline which resulted in my descending the incline quite rapidly, BACKWARDS!

And, since you asked, NO, I don't think the shop is responsible for checking that UNLESS, you specifically asked them to do it. Be glad they didn't charge you an exhorbatant price for doing something you didn't ask them to do. Trust me, its not the first lesson you'll learn on these old bikes.

 

[bwringer]

Agreed -- never, ever let a shop touch your GS. That way lies only madness and heartbreak.

However, in this particular case, the mechanic's actions had nothing at all to do with your spline failure.

ALL the gold colored 82-83 splines WILL fail. All of them. Proper treatment with 60% moly paste will delay the failure a bit, but nothing will prevent the failure.

I have on my shelf a spline unit from a friend's 1982 GS850GL with 24,000 miles on it. He bought the bike with 6,000 miles on it and the original tires, and we made sure we kept the spline unit properly lubed ever since.

At the 24,000 mile tire change, the teeth were literally paper-thin. It probably would have stripped on his way back home. Fortunately, I had a good spare '79 spline on hand because I knew this would happen.


The fault lies with Suzuki or their supplier back in the early '80s. These particular spline units are simply not hard enough. Suzuki discovered this sometime in the late '80s, updated the part and part number, and the same part has been used on many later shafties with no problems, even the far more powerful GSX1100G. If you order a new spline adapter, you'll get the updated part.

The same part was also used in the VS700-800 Intruders, the VX800, and is still in use to this day in the C50/S50 Boulevard cruisers. It's not hard to find a good used one, and it's only $90-$100 new. It was also used in the Cavalcade, but I'm not sure if they had updated the part by then.