Ignition / Coil problems (1983 Suzuki GS550L)

[godmachine81]

Hello everyone, I am new to this forum. I just traded for a bike that has what seems to be a minor problem. I knew this problem existed when I traded for it, I might be kicking myself in the butt when it's all said and done, but I hope someone here can help me out a little.

A little bit about the bike, it's a 1983 GS550L, with 15K miles on it. I have rode the bike when it was running. It was running with a miss though. Like it would run really good for a second, and then it would miss and backfire almost as if you turned the key off and on real quick like. I told the guy who had it that I would definitely buy it off him if he got it fixed.

Well he took it and had the carb cleaned and changed the plugs and plug wires, still it had this issue. I think this is when he decided to take it to another guy who was a mechanic. He said he purchased two new coils for $100 a piece. Yet the problem still exists..

I asked the guy that was working on it what he thought was wrong with it and he said he thought the coil was bad on the left side. I asked him why it would be bad if he just ordered a new one. He said sometimes they came from the factory bad. (At this point I highly doubted the guy really knew what he was doing or he would have KNOWN that the coil was bad) He said that the left side coil would get hot and the plugs wasn't getting fire from that coil, however the right side coil was staying cool and the plugs from it were getting fire fine.

I went ahead and traded a pretty nice glock to the bike, thinking well the bike will be worth more than the gun (approx. $600) especially when I get it running and it pays for its self in gas savings.

Next I found some used coils and a CDI unit on ebay. I am hoping that these will fix the problem. I'm not sure what all the CDI I bought came with but it had a few other things with it. The reason I went ahead and bought the CDI was because it was a good deal on it and I heard that these bikes tend to get bad CDI units especially for this particular year (1983), also I thought it was likely the CDI unit was bad since the left coil wasn't working as it was suppose to (considering it was new and likely not the coil causing the problem).

The link to the CDI I bought is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...3D4%26_fvi%3D1

Can someone look at the picture of the item and tell me what the other two items with the heat sink are (someone said they were rectifiers but I thought this bike only had 1 rectifier?? these look to be made different. are they aftermarket?), and what the black round thing is in the picture. I know which part is the cdi, but I don't know what those other pieces are.

I'd appreciate it if someone could make any recommendations on what I should do to get my bike up and going and identifying the items in the picture on the page I provided.

I look forward to getting my bike running and enjoying this summer riding instead of spending it in the shop!! :neutral:


Thanks!!

 

[Guest]

They are both R/Rs. Maybe the smaller one is just a rectifier. These only came on bikes before 1980. They had seperate rectifiers and regulators. The R/R like on your 83 do both.
Looks like a mix and match bunch of electrical parts. Is the igniter the same as the one on your bike? Did you ask the guy for part numbers?
Looks like there is also a starter solenoid. The round thing I have no idea.

 

[godmachine81]

I tried asking the guy on ebay about the part's but he seemed to not know english very well. I assumed that since it came off another 1983 GS550 it would work, but now you have me worried that it wont because if one of those parts is off a pre-1980 bike then he didn't take them all off the 1983..

I have been looking at eliminating my problem as recommended by other users on this forum, by purchasing the Dyna S series ignition. Does anyone know which one i would need for the 1983 GS550L (GS550LD)? On the Dyna products page it says that it only fits years 1977-1981 GS550(DS3-2) I have been reluctant to purchase this as I don't have any guarantee that it will work on the 1983 model.However, I have seen that on some websites for aftermarket parts they have the DS3-2 Dyna S series ignition for the 1983 GS550L. I would like for someone here to just verify that the DS3-2 is the part I need for my particular year/model bike. I will probably try the item's i purchased off ebay out and see if they help me with my problem before I purchase the new ignition kit though. Thanks guys!

 

[focus frenzy]

ok, first. it's not a CDI. GS's use a battery powered ignition system, small bikes and dirt bikes use CDI type ignitions.

one item is the ignitor box (it takes low voltage trigger signal from pick up coils and triggers the coils)

the larger finned item is a older style regulator rectifier.

the smaller finned item is the regulator rectifier used on the 83 550. it is made from newer more compact bits so it is much smaller.

the round thing off to the side is a generic flasher relay.

 

[Guest]

Try the Fleabay igniter. If a no go the Dyna S will work but you'll need to get a mechanical advance.

 

[godmachine81]

I found a couple of mechanical advance's for GS's on ebay, but I'm not sure if one of them has all the parts with it I'd need. The one with all the parts looks to be very very rusty. Here is a link to each of them:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Suzuki-82-GS550...ryZ35595QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/78-SUZUKI-GS550...ryZ35583QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

As you will notice the picture of the 2nd link looks to be in better shape, however it doesn't have the bolt that attaches it with it, and that might be a bit of trouble to find something else to fit it right since I don't already have a mechanical advance. The first one has the bolt, but look how rusty it is!!


I am probably getting ahead of myself here though. I'd say if I clean all the contact points, replace coils( if needed), replace igniter (if needed), change plugs, and new plug wires, I'd say the baby will be getting fire fine. I hope!! I will keep the mechanical advance in mind though along with the Dyna S. I will be posting pics very soon of my bike, and will let everyone know how it goes with my new parts when they arrive. Thanks everyone!!

 

[Nessism]

Isn't the '83 a 16 valve engine? If so, those early mechanical advance mechanism most likely won't fit.

Something to consider.

 

[jimcor]

Save yourself some time and money and leave that $hit on ebay alone. 9/10ths of it is junk that doesn't work. Guys buy it find out it's trash and then resell it passing the misery on.

If it's electrical it's gonna cost less in downtime and frustration to buy new parts from your dealer or the aftermarket. And yes, I have priced that stuff and yes, I know it's expensive.

 

[Guest]

It is a sixteen valve. Good call Ed. Check out an advance from a GS750 or GS1100 sixteen valve. I'd call Dyna at 800-928-3962. Ask for Raymond at EXT 4172. Smart guy. He'll be able to answer your questions.

 

[godmachine81]

I called that raymond guy and he said that the particular year of bike that I had they didn't make an aftermarket ignition kit for it that none of the models they had would fit. He said that during that year the 550 was notably smaller than the larger models and that the ignition casing would not fit any of their dyna products. I mentioned that someone said something about the Dyna S series working if I added the mechanical advance off an earlier model, he stated that NO this would not work as the ignition would not fit in the 1983 GS550L, he said that he had good experience with this year of bike and that it being the "bastsard child" of the bikes there was no demand for the part. I take it that he meant the 1983 GS550L was an oddball in how it was designed from the factory. Man I hope I'm not fixing to have some serious issues with this bike and finding parts!! Nevertheless Raymond seemed to be of great help at getting to the bottom of the issue that he said was likely not my coils and he stated if it was the coils I would probably luck out on at least one of the two coils I bought off ebay, and if it wasn't the coils to keep my fingers crossed on the Igniter unit working that I bought off ebay. I have faith!!

 

[godmachine81]

I'm afraid I have jumped ahead of myself again!! Now I'm kinda (really) aggravated! You know how I said that the guy who owned the bike(that I got it off of) had it at another guy's shop where he told me the coils were bad. Come to find out he said that he had took the bike to "another" guy and he first cleaned the carburetors and he got done and it wouldn't fire. This guy who has it now,"supposedly" working on it, all he done was took the gas tank off to observe the coils and he noted that the left side coil was just getting hot so he "suspected" the coil was bad. Now I'm in a situation where someone that I don't know has cleaned the carbs, put them back together, how'd they get them sync'd without it running???? That's got me, so the carb's are probably all messed up now, and the coil problem was probably something the previous owner suspected to be the carbs to begin with. I'd say this is all out of whack!! I have tried calling the guy who has the bike at his house so I can just go get it and haul it (I know this is bad) home.. I think I can do this stuff myself, at least I can try! I think I'd get further than these people have because first I would have done a whole lot more testing than just sent the bike to get the carbs cleaned.. Now I have the problem where the guy who has it isn't answering his phone. I have the title to the bike and I'm seriously considering having the law to go with me down there to get it so there isn't some kind of mess started. I don't know what the deal is. I hope this guy isn't trying to avoid me. I do know that the bike ran pretty good when I rode it about 3 - 4 months ago. The previous owner "says" that is the last time it was rode. And my observations of what the bike was doing lead him to taking the bike to have the carbs cleaned...

I can tell you exactly what the bike was doing then. It would fire up and run just fine (it won't now cuz they have done something to it when they f*cked the carbs) until you would get to about 4500 - 5000 RPM range and it would stall as if you had hit the kill switch / ignition switch off.. Then it would all the sudden come back to life. But in the time it was running it seemed to have full power and run good. So what I'm thinking is that either the coil or the igniter was bad to begin with. When he took it to have the carbs cleaned, the guy didn't sync them because it wouldn't run (unless there is a way to sync them without the engine running), and he may have not cleaned them properly and replaced everything exactly as it should have been. So now I probably have the problem with the coils / igniter, plus Carb problems. I just hope the Carb intake boots aren't bad as I haven't seen any of them online for this particular model sold as aftermarket OEM replacements..

Essentially I have 3 major problems now and I don't like them at all!!

1) My bike is setting in a garage somewhere that I don't have access to, and can't get ahold of the guy.

2)Coil/Ignition Problems

3)Carb issues..

Looks like I'll be getting my bloodpressure up.. I guess I will go about resolving these issues in the above order though.. If anyone might have any recommendations to this sick, sad, pathetic, whatever you wanna call it, situation.. then please do so with kind regards! Thanks!!

 

[Guest]

Raymond is a good guy. He is the one who built my head for me. Sorry about the bastard child bike.
Do your best to get the bike and we'll help you sort it out. Take a deep breath and take it one step at a time.
If you feel like you have to get the law involved do it but only as a desperate measure.

 

[jimcor]

Tell 'em you want the Glock back or you'll intoduce them to your Sig Sauer.

 

[godmachine81]

Tell 'em you want the Glock back or you'll intoduce them to your Sig Sauer.

LOL.. I like that line. I'm not gonna say that I couldn't do that because I actually could...haha.. But with all jokes aside, the deal I made with the guy was pretty much a favor for him to do a favor for me. I wanted the bike because I like it and it's in exceptionally good shape for the year it is, other than the issues I have outlined. The guy who had it before me is my 1st cousin so its kind of family related. But the guy he took it to, to fix the coil issue (/ straighten out the messed up carb rebuild) I have no idea who he really is, I've been there one time and that was the day we made the trade. I really can't remember exactly which house the guy lives in or anything. All I know is his name and his phone number. I mean I know I will get the bike sooner or later, but I think I'm getting pretty desperate for wheels right now. I've been off work for 2 months due to a surgery so I haven't really needed the bike that much. But now I have a s10 that is broke and I have to return to work on Monday. It's pretty obvious the bike isn't going to be rideable by then, so I'm going to have to hitch a ride with someone else. I'm sorry for the long post and blabbering on but I'm just highly frustrated!!

 

[BassCliff]

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hi Mr. godmachine81,

I'm sorry to hear of your soap opera. With the hope of you actually taking possession of your bike, here is your mega-welcome! \\/

Dear fellow GS rider,

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)![FONT=Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the In The Garage section via the GSR Homepage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr. And if your bike uses shims for valve adjustments, send an email to Mr. Steve requesting a copy of his Excel spreadsheet that helps you keep track of clearances, shim sizes and other service work.

These are some edited quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:
http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html
Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:
http://cycleorings.com/intake.html
You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.
And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:
http://cycleorings.com
Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:
http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm
***********************************
Every GS850 has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years. It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

1. Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile O-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)
2. Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)
3. Valve clearances (more important than most people think)
4. Carb/airbox boots
5. Airbox sealing
6. Air filter sealing
7. Petcock (install a NEW one)
8. On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)
9. On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.
10. Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
***************************************
OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.
http://denniskirk.com - Put in your bike model and see what they have.
http://oldbikebarn.com - seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.
http://www.babbittsonline.com/ - Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.
http://bikebandit.com - Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.
http://flatoutmotorcycles.com - Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.
http://alpha-sports.com - Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc:

http://mcmaster.com - Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.
http://motorcycleseatcovers.com - Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.
http://newenough.com - You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************
Additional parts/info links:

GSR Forum member Mr. duaneage has great used upgraded Honda regulator/rectifiers for our bikes. Send him a PM.
New electrical parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/RMSTATOR or http://www.rmstator.com/
http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php
http://www.electrosport.com/
For valve cover and breather cover gaskets, I recommend Real Gaskets (reusable silicon):
http://www.realgaskets.com
The Rice Paddy (salvage/used)
http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com
Carolina Cycle
http://www.carolinacycle.com
Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com
MR Cycles
http://www.mrcycles.com
Moto Grid
http://www.motogrid.com
If all else fails, try this:
http://www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/
Used bike buying checklists:
http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/Riderresc/checklist.asp
http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html
Lots of good info/pictures here:
http://www.suzukicycles.org
http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

 

[godmachine81]

Got some good news here! I finally got ahold of the guy that's got my bike!! I'm going to pick it up today. I will post some pics on here as soon as I get home with it. Well maybe not as soon as I get home, gotta have some time to toy around first!! Pics will be coming soon folks. I can't wait to get her home!

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

Godmachine:

Your bike and its engine can be viewd negatively as bastard children.
They were produced at around the height of the greatest global economic downtunr after 1929. This was a time when HD got vile protectionist tariifs to insulate its POS product line from real competition form real manufactuirers.

I recall way back in the early 80s a prediction that tow of the big four producers form Japan would be driven out of production so things were very bad indeed. The annual product line form each vendor dropped dramatically.

You guys recall those cool Honda posters with what looked like a hundred or more bike trikes scooters and mopeds from the 70s?

well anyhow the gs 550 from 83-86 was an is a quite remarkable offering.
your current difficulties are readily addressable.

There are several long standng members on this forum who have shoe- horned Dyna ignitions onto the machine although I think they could not place the timing cover back on.

I very much advise you to download the manual for this bike at repairmanualclub.com it is this machines holy grail and contains all break down and reapir information in great detail.

The carbs are not complex and a good cleaning is easy to do.
check the diaphraghms and other componets as per the manual and after a proper cleaning and reassembly you will have removed carbs as part of the equation in any troubleshooting scenario.

The coils can be tested as well easily with a meter for primary and secondary resistance cant recallt he specs but this test will determine of the uniots are bad in and of themselves.

WE really do need a dedicate forum on here for the bastard model
its a great bike in all iterations L or E or ES

Skreemer, Nerboro who has trhe lowdown on the ignition issues?

I cant stress enought he need for the manual and the need not to trust others to do work for you who have only general knowledge.

 

[godmachine81]

Ok I'm just wondering how I am going to get my ignition cover back on, I tested the old ignition and it was the problem. I was getting signal from 2 of 3 wires. Both Igniter boxes I have seem to be bad. I have the Dyna S on the way with an mechanical advance unit. I have no idea how I will get the casing back on. This unit comes with 2 Andrews coils as well. I will probably use those instead of the stock coils I have. I have 4 stock coils. I just can't find any pics or specs of the coils I'm getting with the Dyna-S. All I know is that they are Andrews Coils. Here is a pic to all the stuff I'm getting.

If anyone might know of a cheap homebrew way around getting my ignition cover back in place please let me know! I also will have to do some modding to the Dyna-S ignition plate because as stated above the '83 model was a bastard child and only had 2 bolt holes holding the original ignition plate intact. The Dyna-S requires 3. I seen a thread where a guy got his to work, but it wasn't very detailed as to how he done it. I'm really stressed about the situation now. I just hope someone else with a 83 model 550L has added the Dyna-S DS3-2 ignition to their bike and can give me some pointers / advice! Thanks everyone!

 

[Guest]

The dragbike guys drill a hole in the cover. The decal should still keep the dust out.

 

[godmachine81]

The dragbike guys drill a hole in the cover. The decal should still keep the dust out.

Drill a hole in the cover? That would be quiet a big hole wouldn't it? What kind of decal keeps the dirt out? I was thinking more of going a route by using like a thick gasket material cut to the size of the cover and going that route.. I don't think drilling a hole in the cover sounds too good, but it may be an only option in the end. I'll use that as a last resort though.