Those are extremely good bikes. I almost bought one as my first streetbike, but was wooed away by an '82 GPz 550.
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It's 1979
- Thread starter Grimly
- Start date
The bikes had these nagging little quirks, like most bikes do. Early electric starters were weak, they even had a compression release for awhile on one cylinder. I had a brand new one back in 81, the electric start was slow and iffy after it sat overnight. Started on the 1st kick, and then the starter after that would carry it ok. Until the next day. Saw this on quite a few of them. They also have a tendency to clutch drag slightly when warm. My current XS650 is the only one I've had that doesn't. Not bad, just a tiny amount. On older bikes the stators get iffy, as is normal. I've found that if the stator on these isn't old and crappy looking, they are most likely fine. They were good stuff from the factory. I like to do the tapered head bearing conversions, and will not waste my time or money on aftermarket electronic ignitions. Mike's, if you research that, is a crap shoot for parts. I've not heard anything good about his carbs, and the stock carbs are fine when proper. Also fairly simple, since even I can seem to get them working OK.
Work continues not-apace on the XS.
Today, there are brakes on it again. Stiff and wooden brakes, but brakes for all that. There would have been brakes on it last week, but the double-banjo bolt under the steering head had disappeared, so one had to be ordered, and the shiny new braided lines fitted. I went with new lines as the OP had fitted SS braided lines already, but one had failed, which didn't fill me with confidence in the others.
It's simply a step forward to enable me to push the pistons out for cleaning and seal renewal, as necessary. It sat for so long I didn't recall if the brakes were binding before or not, but they certainly are now. Anyway, another small step.
Today, there are brakes on it again. Stiff and wooden brakes, but brakes for all that. There would have been brakes on it last week, but the double-banjo bolt under the steering head had disappeared, so one had to be ordered, and the shiny new braided lines fitted. I went with new lines as the OP had fitted SS braided lines already, but one had failed, which didn't fill me with confidence in the others.
It's simply a step forward to enable me to push the pistons out for cleaning and seal renewal, as necessary. It sat for so long I didn't recall if the brakes were binding before or not, but they certainly are now. Anyway, another small step.
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New clutch cable fitted today, which has transformed it from being a He-Man/gorilla type of operation to a simple smooth pull. It's heavier than I was expecting, so I wonder if there are some uprated springs in there. It's ok to live with for now, though. Cable disconnected from lever and gear oil being funnelled through it as I write, so that will improve it even more.
Further to the above, the clutch is now a model of propriety, pulling in and releasing with just a hint of gruffness about it.
Anyway, today's adventures had me rooting around under the seat, preparatory to actually starting the thing up. The tank's on (but I'll take that back off and give it a proper flush out) and when I was looking at the wiring to / from the battery I started to cuss and swear quite a lot. Some PO has done their level best to create an underseat ass warmer - the main starter return current was being carried by a skinny 2.5mm cable from the frame to the battery box - the main negative lead was connected to the battery box and no further. This meant all the normal electrical returns were fine, but not the starter, and as a result the skinny wire was toasted nicely. No insulation left on it at all.
Also, in an attempt to fit the more commonly available YB14L-A2 battery (as is fitted to GS850s for example) which has the terminals on the opposite sides to the one normally fitted to the XS650, the utter brainiac of the PO had extended the Pos lead with a piece of braided ground strap and covered it with insulating tape. All brilliant stuff.
Jeez, where do these people come from?
Anyway, today's adventures had me rooting around under the seat, preparatory to actually starting the thing up. The tank's on (but I'll take that back off and give it a proper flush out) and when I was looking at the wiring to / from the battery I started to cuss and swear quite a lot. Some PO has done their level best to create an underseat ass warmer - the main starter return current was being carried by a skinny 2.5mm cable from the frame to the battery box - the main negative lead was connected to the battery box and no further. This meant all the normal electrical returns were fine, but not the starter, and as a result the skinny wire was toasted nicely. No insulation left on it at all.
Also, in an attempt to fit the more commonly available YB14L-A2 battery (as is fitted to GS850s for example) which has the terminals on the opposite sides to the one normally fitted to the XS650, the utter brainiac of the PO had extended the Pos lead with a piece of braided ground strap and covered it with insulating tape. All brilliant stuff.
Jeez, where do these people come from?
WooHoo! <happy dance>
It's running at long last. After some of the normal reluctance you'd expect (after all, it's been sitting for a decade) it fired up. Once the precautionary oil I'd put down the bores a few years ago had cleared away, it started quite willingly on the kickstarter. That bore oil don't arf make the workshop stink, though <cough>
It's got a nice thrummy twin feel to it, not harsh, but just as I recall them - of course, after having spent so long on fours, this feels like a different kettle of fish entirely and my immediate impression was something was misfiring badly
No, it's just two cylinders are missing.
Occurs to me that modern twin owners, with their balance shafts and all that, are missing something of the real feel of what their engines should be like. Old-skool, yeah.
It's running at long last. After some of the normal reluctance you'd expect (after all, it's been sitting for a decade) it fired up. Once the precautionary oil I'd put down the bores a few years ago had cleared away, it started quite willingly on the kickstarter. That bore oil don't arf make the workshop stink, though <cough>
It's got a nice thrummy twin feel to it, not harsh, but just as I recall them - of course, after having spent so long on fours, this feels like a different kettle of fish entirely and my immediate impression was something was misfiring badly
No, it's just two cylinders are missing.Occurs to me that modern twin owners, with their balance shafts and all that, are missing something of the real feel of what their engines should be like. Old-skool, yeah.
It became obvious that one cylinder wasn't pulling its weight and this is what I found when I stripped the RH carb...
Dropping the drain plug on the LH carb revealed more of the same crud, so I'll strip that tomorrow.
Turns out they're VM34s with 185 main jets, so I'll have a poke around the Mikuni specs and see if there's a clue there that might give me an inkling if any tuning work's been done on the engine. I don't really know, at this point, whether these carbs, with that jetting, might have been nothing more than an off-the-shelf upgrade to a standard lump or not.
Dropping the drain plug on the LH carb revealed more of the same crud, so I'll strip that tomorrow.
Turns out they're VM34s with 185 main jets, so I'll have a poke around the Mikuni specs and see if there's a clue there that might give me an inkling if any tuning work's been done on the engine. I don't really know, at this point, whether these carbs, with that jetting, might have been nothing more than an off-the-shelf upgrade to a standard lump or not.
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G
GSX1000E
Guest
Great news!!! All of your hard work has paid off. Now just to fix the little things like those carbs and it will be getting so much closer to being on pavement again. 
It's nearly there so bad I can taste it. The Motad pipe even makes it sound quite civilises and I think I'll leave that as it is, for now.
Heh; starting it on the centre stand with only one cylinder firing, it immediated started to dance backwards at quite a rate...On idle, with bot carbs actually working, it was smooth and docile, but with only one firing it turned into an unruly bad-mannered heap.
Heh; starting it on the centre stand with only one cylinder firing, it immediated started to dance backwards at quite a rate...On idle, with bot carbs actually working, it was smooth and docile, but with only one firing it turned into an unruly bad-mannered heap.
G
GSX1000E
Guest
Only small hurdles to jump over now. Would love to hear the sweet music coming from that pipe when you get it sorted.
Would love to hear the sweet music coming from that pipe when you get it sorted.
Yesterday, both carbs stripped, cleaned and rebuilt, and now have the internal details of main jetting. Interestingly, the float level on one side was a couple of mm different from the other carb. I also found the Mikuni float level illustration that I could find related to an older one, so simply had to make an assumption about the spacing, reasoning the datum point wouldn't be totally, wildly different from what both carbs presented me with. They're now the same anyway, and I'll check the running plug colour. I see the main needles were set at a middling position, so there's leeway there if needed.
Also painted a side panel - there's a mixed pair; one of them is the OE Special panel, and the other one is from a Standard. Luckily, nobody sees both sides at once. I'll pick up a matching one of either type to make a pair.
Paint will be satin black - that is matt black with a satin clear coat, perhaps with a top half of satin dark green and a copper coachline between. I'll see how it looks on a smaller scale before committing myself to the whole thing.
Also painted a side panel - there's a mixed pair; one of them is the OE Special panel, and the other one is from a Standard. Luckily, nobody sees both sides at once. I'll pick up a matching one of either type to make a pair.
Paint will be satin black - that is matt black with a satin clear coat, perhaps with a top half of satin dark green and a copper coachline between. I'll see how it looks on a smaller scale before committing myself to the whole thing.
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Mikunis back on and roughly clankerated (slides clank down simultaneously) enough to start. The standby battery is mullered so the fire wouldn't light, but a fresh battery sorted that and all the kicking over with the dead one certainly brought a willingness to wake up.
Amusingly, it started fine with no choke, and the old coal-fired locomotive smell re-inforced my suspicion that it's simply far too rich - confirmed by the gust of black soot when the throttle is blipped.
However, when warmed up it settled down nicely to a mild tickover at 800rpm, both cylinders pulling their weight, if not quite evenly. Exhaust pipe IR readings reveal the LH cylinder is over-fuelled or the RH one under-fuelled - a difference of 30degC. I don't trust this IR thermometer to give anywhere near accurate readings in that range, as it's way over what it's supposed to do, but the difference is repeatable, so likely reliable as an indicator.
Tomorrow, more fiddling.
Amusingly, it started fine with no choke, and the old coal-fired locomotive smell re-inforced my suspicion that it's simply far too rich - confirmed by the gust of black soot when the throttle is blipped.
However, when warmed up it settled down nicely to a mild tickover at 800rpm, both cylinders pulling their weight, if not quite evenly. Exhaust pipe IR readings reveal the LH cylinder is over-fuelled or the RH one under-fuelled - a difference of 30degC. I don't trust this IR thermometer to give anywhere near accurate readings in that range, as it's way over what it's supposed to do, but the difference is repeatable, so likely reliable as an indicator.
Tomorrow, more fiddling.
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More fiddling.
Did the valve clearances yesterday - they were ok, with one exhaust and one inlet slightly slack but nothing worth noting. Of more annoyance was the stripped thread into the alloy of the head where one of the studs to hold on the left inlet inspection cap goes. Ordered up a set of M6 helicoils to fix that and the sump plate properly.
The Mikuni VM34s are handed L-R versions and so far as I can see, the only difference between them is the side the air adjuster screw is on. Given that, why on Earth did the PO or someone mount the carbs with the screws facing each other, on the insides?
Made it nearly impossible to adjust the slide bottoming setting.
I swapped them over so the screws are easily accessible from outside, and the idle air/fuel mix on the (now left) carb is still reachable with a long screwdriver from the RH side.
Today, temporarily fitted the stripped stud with AbroSteel (which had set rock-hard from yesterday) and installed the valve adjuster cap, then set about starting it and warming it up for a timing check.
Intrigued to find the Boyer Digital ignitor has inbuilt advance, so the bob-weights have long since been binned and I hope I never need to find another set at short notice. Anyway, a couple of priming prods on the kick lever, switch it on and it starts nicely from cold now, even with the carbs being disturbed greatly when swapped around. Warmed it up, set the carbs again (vac gauges and colourtune) and checked the sparks - spot on, as expected.
Been looking at the possibility of fitting a 17" rear wheel to it, with the intention of only needing to have one size of rear tyre for all three bikes and discovered the GS500E wheel is a good fit - just have to find a smaller sprocket for it.
Did the valve clearances yesterday - they were ok, with one exhaust and one inlet slightly slack but nothing worth noting. Of more annoyance was the stripped thread into the alloy of the head where one of the studs to hold on the left inlet inspection cap goes. Ordered up a set of M6 helicoils to fix that and the sump plate properly.
The Mikuni VM34s are handed L-R versions and so far as I can see, the only difference between them is the side the air adjuster screw is on. Given that, why on Earth did the PO or someone mount the carbs with the screws facing each other, on the insides?
Made it nearly impossible to adjust the slide bottoming setting.
I swapped them over so the screws are easily accessible from outside, and the idle air/fuel mix on the (now left) carb is still reachable with a long screwdriver from the RH side.
Today, temporarily fitted the stripped stud with AbroSteel (which had set rock-hard from yesterday) and installed the valve adjuster cap, then set about starting it and warming it up for a timing check.
Intrigued to find the Boyer Digital ignitor has inbuilt advance, so the bob-weights have long since been binned and I hope I never need to find another set at short notice. Anyway, a couple of priming prods on the kick lever, switch it on and it starts nicely from cold now, even with the carbs being disturbed greatly when swapped around. Warmed it up, set the carbs again (vac gauges and colourtune) and checked the sparks - spot on, as expected.
Been looking at the possibility of fitting a 17" rear wheel to it, with the intention of only needing to have one size of rear tyre for all three bikes and discovered the GS500E wheel is a good fit - just have to find a smaller sprocket for it.
S
spyug
Guest
Oh man these are great little bikes and I kick myself everyday for letting mine go. Stock 78 that with too much cash thrown at it became a street tracker.
A real hoot of a bike :
Easy to spend money on these with tons of available parts and mods. I had this bike 6 or more years ago and a lot of the stuff came from Mikes. I found them to be fine to deal with and parts then were of good quality I thought.
That bike had little in the way of engine upgrade other than jetting and pods but most of the money went to suspension including progressive springs with cartridge emulators in the front and ZX 1100 gas shocks in the rear. Front wheel was converted to dual disk with stainless steel brake lines and upgraded master. Hoop style fork brace for stability up front. In the rear end a similar size wheel to the front from a 500 Yammie as I recall along with 530 chain and aluminum cog. sorry I can't recall the toothing. The swingarm was a braced rectangular profile unit from an unknown bike, possibly an early Yammie sportbike. Fresh rubber too, of course.
The seat was handbuilt by yours truly and was actually the cause of me selling the bike. Fiberglass over foam construction and hard as a board even with the pad. I ended up squishing my left sciatic nerve in my ass and losing all feeling and some control of my left leg. That took me out of riding for over a year but on the upside caused me to find GSs. Fell in love with the whale of a seat on the 83 750 I snagged and brought me to this nut house.
But now, as I said, I really truly wish I had kept that bike. Oh well so many bikes so little time as they say.
I am sure you have found it but if not the XS 650 Garage is the XS equivalent of the GSR. http://xs650temp.proboards.com/ Some super great guys and all the knowledge you will ever need.
Enjoy the hell out of that bike, I'll be following your progress you lucky sod!
Slainte
A real hoot of a bike :
Easy to spend money on these with tons of available parts and mods. I had this bike 6 or more years ago and a lot of the stuff came from Mikes. I found them to be fine to deal with and parts then were of good quality I thought.
That bike had little in the way of engine upgrade other than jetting and pods but most of the money went to suspension including progressive springs with cartridge emulators in the front and ZX 1100 gas shocks in the rear. Front wheel was converted to dual disk with stainless steel brake lines and upgraded master. Hoop style fork brace for stability up front. In the rear end a similar size wheel to the front from a 500 Yammie as I recall along with 530 chain and aluminum cog. sorry I can't recall the toothing. The swingarm was a braced rectangular profile unit from an unknown bike, possibly an early Yammie sportbike. Fresh rubber too, of course.
The seat was handbuilt by yours truly and was actually the cause of me selling the bike. Fiberglass over foam construction and hard as a board even with the pad. I ended up squishing my left sciatic nerve in my ass and losing all feeling and some control of my left leg. That took me out of riding for over a year but on the upside caused me to find GSs. Fell in love with the whale of a seat on the 83 750 I snagged and brought me to this nut house.
But now, as I said, I really truly wish I had kept that bike. Oh well so many bikes so little time as they say.
I am sure you have found it but if not the XS 650 Garage is the XS equivalent of the GSR. http://xs650temp.proboards.com/ Some super great guys and all the knowledge you will ever need.
Enjoy the hell out of that bike, I'll be following your progress you lucky sod!
Slainte
Cheers, Spyug - that's a cracking looking job you did with that.
Mine is more of a rescue dog (mind you, I think a lot of them are) being re-homed and turned into a back-road scratcher.
Today I scored a Kawasaki ZRX400 seat, which is on its way to me from a local-ish breaker via ebay. I think I'll be comfortable on that, as it's quite well padded and like you, have the odd sciatica problem, so am sensitive to bad seating. As soon as I sat on the Special seat, I knew I couldn't ride it like that - old collapsed foam and wrecked cover made a rebuild necessary anyway, so I was looking for another solution.
The nose of the Kwak seat looks as if it perfectly matches the rear of the XS400 tank I'll be using, and by shortening the seat I can make the bike totally solo and free up space behind me for occasional cargo - the idea being to keep all weight in the wheelbase and not have a rack or box hanging off the back.
Every time I pick the Yam up to move it around, it feels just so light compared to the GS and I want to keep that feeling on the road, hence the cut-down, slim-down approach.
Got the XS400 tank de-rusted today by sloshing some 20% phosphoric acid solution around in it and leaving it overnight. Rubbed it down beforehand and it came up well. I think it will look fine in satin black with black highlights.
I now have a pair of Standard/Roadster side panels to match the more angular lines of the tank - the bike came to me with one Special panel and one Standard.
Mine is more of a rescue dog (mind you, I think a lot of them are) being re-homed and turned into a back-road scratcher.
Today I scored a Kawasaki ZRX400 seat, which is on its way to me from a local-ish breaker via ebay. I think I'll be comfortable on that, as it's quite well padded and like you, have the odd sciatica problem, so am sensitive to bad seating. As soon as I sat on the Special seat, I knew I couldn't ride it like that - old collapsed foam and wrecked cover made a rebuild necessary anyway, so I was looking for another solution.
The nose of the Kwak seat looks as if it perfectly matches the rear of the XS400 tank I'll be using, and by shortening the seat I can make the bike totally solo and free up space behind me for occasional cargo - the idea being to keep all weight in the wheelbase and not have a rack or box hanging off the back.
Every time I pick the Yam up to move it around, it feels just so light compared to the GS and I want to keep that feeling on the road, hence the cut-down, slim-down approach.
Got the XS400 tank de-rusted today by sloshing some 20% phosphoric acid solution around in it and leaving it overnight. Rubbed it down beforehand and it came up well. I think it will look fine in satin black with black highlights.
I now have a pair of Standard/Roadster side panels to match the more angular lines of the tank - the bike came to me with one Special panel and one Standard.
Just had a quick fiddle underneath after seeing this chart over on XS650.com...
One of the niggling oil leaks was caused by the two middle dome nuts having no copper crush washers at all - sheesh, some people.
The other one is where a pair of stripped threads exist on the oil pan plate - there's enough good thread to just grip and with the aid of some Hylomar on the bolt heads and washers, it will do for now. I intend to mod a spare plate to carry an external filter, so once I do that and swap it out, I'll repair the threads then.
One of the niggling oil leaks was caused by the two middle dome nuts having no copper crush washers at all - sheesh, some people.
The other one is where a pair of stripped threads exist on the oil pan plate - there's enough good thread to just grip and with the aid of some Hylomar on the bolt heads and washers, it will do for now. I intend to mod a spare plate to carry an external filter, so once I do that and swap it out, I'll repair the threads then.
Trial fitting the XS400 tank in conjunction with the ZRX400 seat, reveals a pleasing combo. There's a slight gap, but when the fixing lugs of the tank and seat are sorted properly, they'll exist quite well together.
Don't think I'll bother messing around with hinges - under the tank securing bracket there's a nice space for a tongue from the seat to go under, and I can devise a QR latch (or two) for the rear. The seat sits perfectly on the frame rails, as if made for them. With the addition of some rubber bumpers, it will work well.
Don't think I'll bother messing around with hinges - under the tank securing bracket there's a nice space for a tongue from the seat to go under, and I can devise a QR latch (or two) for the rear. The seat sits perfectly on the frame rails, as if made for them. With the addition of some rubber bumpers, it will work well.
Re-tackled the brakes again yesterday and today. I'd put the calipers back on last time only to see how bad they were and to use the handlebar lever to pop the pistons if necessary. Turned out it was very necessary.
The LH caliper popped apart easily enough, and revealed a piston that was very slightly pitted, but cleaned up well enough with a touch of emery and wire wheel. I'll put that on the list for replacement; even though it's gone back on the bike, I would like to know items like that are as they should be. That caliper struck me as having been rebuilt / renewed at some point - the seal was perfect, as was the dust boot. Given the bike is 36 years old, it's likely that someone did a brake rebuild before I got it.
The second piston took some moving - the master cylinder wasn't shifting it, and the application of a blowtorch to the caliper body had it moving eventually under pressure. In spite of this being much more stuck, the piston was entirely unmarked and doesn't need replaced. The seal is totally gubbered though. So, that's a new piston and a seal kit needed.
The LH caliper popped apart easily enough, and revealed a piston that was very slightly pitted, but cleaned up well enough with a touch of emery and wire wheel. I'll put that on the list for replacement; even though it's gone back on the bike, I would like to know items like that are as they should be. That caliper struck me as having been rebuilt / renewed at some point - the seal was perfect, as was the dust boot. Given the bike is 36 years old, it's likely that someone did a brake rebuild before I got it.
The second piston took some moving - the master cylinder wasn't shifting it, and the application of a blowtorch to the caliper body had it moving eventually under pressure. In spite of this being much more stuck, the piston was entirely unmarked and doesn't need replaced. The seal is totally gubbered though. So, that's a new piston and a seal kit needed.
XS400 tank now equipped with two rear-ward fuel outlets to utilise traditional on/off/res on the left and off/res on the right, which rather cunningly gives me a reserve and a deadly-serious-last-gasp reserve. Just got to blank off the original petcock hole with a plate.
S
spyug
Guest
Well I've been away for a year or so but back in the game again and glad to see you are making progress on the XS. I'm getting stuck in to a free to me CB 650 and am just putting the carbs back together in hope of firing up in the next day or so. Everytime I look at my CB 650 I think of the XS and kick myself one more time.
I am not planning on keeping but just tarting it up for a flip in the spring, but I find myself thinking about the mods I could make if I were to keep it. But I won't.
I'm looking forward to seeing how yours turns out so keep the pics and story coming.
Slainte.
I am not planning on keeping but just tarting it up for a flip in the spring, but I find myself thinking about the mods I could make if I were to keep it. But I won't.
I'm looking forward to seeing how yours turns out so keep the pics and story coming.
Slainte.
