Jack's GSX400E Now it's the clutch...

[Polish-Jack]

Just as I thought I was seeing the light at the tunnel I find a new problem. After replacing the rear tire I found that the PO of this bike put the whole rear wheel assembly incorrectly, destroying the sprocket carrier, bushing spacer, and bearing in the sprocket carrier. That has all been fixed now just in time for my new chain to arrive. I take off the front sprocket cover and it looks like it has never been cleaned...ever. There was gunk you could scoop out with your finger. I spend a couple hours cleaning the area and then installed the new chain. Here is where the problem starts: I follow the instructions in the Haynes manual to adjust the clutch but no matter how loose or tight I make it I can't fully disengage the clutch.

Here are some pictures:

This is the clutch Pushrod. This rod has 2-3 cm of movement into and out of the case where it is protruding from. Is this normal?




This is the thing that pushes on the Pushrod. It only turns a tiny little bit and seems to only push the Pushrod in about 1 - 1.5 mm. Is that normal?





Long story short: I can't get the clutch to disengage no matter what I do. If I use the intructions in the Haynes manual the clutch lever feels like it is actuating something, but nothing happens. If I almost completely screw in the slot headed adjuster to press against the Pushrod, effectively locking the clutch open, I can get my rear wheel to turn with effort, but pressing the clutch lever after that does not make a difference and the wheel never spins free when in gear and the clutch lever pressed in. I have drained the oil to take the cover off of the clutch side of the engine but thought I should post here before I start taking that apart.

Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong?

 

[Gorminrider]

Generally speaking, just to cover the salient points for you to check off:
gunk is normal- It means the chain was being generously oiled. A certain amount will come from failing pushrod seals too but mostly the chain throwing off oil.

pushrod is normal.
the pushrod actuator thingy is very important. it is actually exerting yet more leverage against the strong,strong springs that hold the clutch plates in contact to drive the bike ahead....Very little pushing on the clutch is required to relieve the clutch plates from their grip... it needs careful adjustment -see manual-to ensure it pushes the rod throughout it's short travel with just the tiniest bit of "freeplay"..The adjuster for the "thingy" is accessed through a removeable plate on the sprocket cover. A LOCKNUT is involved ... LESS than a quarter turn say an eighth if you can manage it-where it does not push the pushrod against the clutch...as to 1.5mm I can't say. The Hand lever is the determining factor as to how much cable is pulled and thereby how much the thingy extends. So, if it is extending it is probably ok, barring funkiness you experienced with rear wheel....
You can: take the clutch cover off on the other side to watch it happen...you should see movement when you squeeze the clutch lever. of course you will drain the oil first unless you tip the bike over a fair amount.

The wheel will never spin "free" by hand in gear with clutch pulled in especially on a cold bike with cold oil..even then there is oil between plates and it exerts a "hydrostatic?" sticky force even when clutch plates are "disengaged" . This is where the oil arguments arise per car oils being TOO slippery and it's a fine line because the plates move so little before they slip .
But in real use, on pavement you should not feel the bike moving ahead at all.

If the bike has been sitting a long while, the oil on the plates will dry out/drain off and your clutch will stick despite being perfectly adjusted. They are glued together.
You can:
start the bike and try to break the plates away from their stickiness by using the brakes on your driveway OR
tip the bike, loosen the clutch bolts slightly make the bike upright ,and again exercise the bike til the clutch slips and spreads oil up into them..then retighten clutch to torque values.

 

[Gorminrider]

I think you are showing the adjuster. I don't see a locknut there.

Please put your year of bike. There are differences.
but heres something that appears to show the adjuster locknut is part 26.
https://www.cmsnl.com/suzuki-gsx400...-e02-e04-e22_model13629/partslist/FIG-15.html

 

[Polish-Jack]

That is correct. The lock nut is removed for convenience until I figure out what is wrong, if anything is actually wrong and not just my inexperienced assumptions.

 

[Nessism]

For one, you should remove the helix device from the clutch cover and grease it up. Second, oil the clutch cable. Lastly, adjust the helix to get the proper amount of freeplay at the clutch lever. It's been a while since I worked on one of those bikes but you need to be careful how the moveable helix indexes into the stationary helix in the cover. If you rotate the moving part and index it incorrectly, it won't take up the free play correctly.

 

[Polish-Jack]

For one, you should remove the helix device from the clutch cover and grease it up. Second, oil the clutch cable. Lastly, adjust the helix to get the proper amount of freeplay at the clutch lever. It's been a while since I worked on one of those bikes but you need to be careful how the moveable helix indexes into the stationary helix in the cover. If you rotate the moving part and index it incorrectly, it won't take up the free play correctly.

Both parts of the helix device as been greased up with fresh moly and the cable has been cleaned and PTFE dry lubed. There are four ways the helical device can be indexed and only one is even close enough to work. The other three ways to install it either make it impossible to attach the clutch cable or close the cover properly.

Right now I have removed all free play from the clutch lever as to get maximum travel in the helix device in order to eliminate the idea that the device is not moving enough.

 

[Cipher]

There is very little movement in that mechanism and very little distance travelled by the pushrod. Its lubed and assuming yiu put it back together properly its should work.

Refer to the oem manual for the proper adjustment procedure.

It involved botht he helic and the lever and is not as obvious as one might think. A tiny adjustment at the helix makes a huge difference.

 

[Nessism]

Are you sure the clutch plates are free and not sticking together?

 

[Polish-Jack]

Are you sure the clutch plates are free and not sticking together?

I am not sure in the least. Until this forum thread I did not know that was a possibility. I am doing some internet googling on the subject to learn what I can.

 

[Nessism]

If the bike sat for a few years it's not unusual for the clutch plates to stick together. It will only cost you a gasket to find out.

 

[TxGSrider]

If the bike sat for a few years it's not unusual for the clutch plates to stick together. It will only cost you a gasket to find out.

Ive seen this happen in a period of months.

 

[Polish-Jack]

It turns out is was a stuck clutch! I had no idea that was possible. I found a "cure" on youtube where you tie to clutch lever down for three days and check every now and then, but if it does not break free after three days then you probably need to disassemble and see what is going on. In my case the clutch broke free overnight.

 

[LAB3]

It turns out is was a stuck clutch! I had no idea that was possible. I found a "cure" on youtube where you tie to clutch lever down for three days and check every now and then, but if it does not break free after three days then you probably need to disassemble and see what is going on. In my case the clutch broke free overnight.

Mine needed a quick downhill coast then slammed into first gear, first try did it. Ended up opening it up and cleaning the tabs just for fun, that was my buddies idea.