Jim, posplayr, your work is making the rounds.

[Billy Ricks]

Found this on a Triumph forum. You get credit in quite a few threads there.
http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-tri...uses-the-stators-to-burn-out.html#post1649754

 

[posplayr]

Found this on a Triumph forum. You get credit in quite a few threads there.
http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-tri...uses-the-stators-to-burn-out.html#post1649754

Thanks Billy,
I have conversed with DEcosse in the past and he has given me credit ithere and a couple other forums.


There is also a guy Finedaddy1 who has a 09 Buell 1125CR, he found the links took the plunge and he cound not be happier. He signed on here at GSR to thank me. Here is a thread for a discussion going on over at badweatherbikes.

http://badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/629084.html?1303997177

The Aprilla guys are conversting slowly.

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160360&page=31

These are very new bikes having these problems and these Aprilla guys pay close to $1K for a stator.

Jim

 

[Billy Ricks]

Jim,

I see from the Shindengen site that the SH775 is a series type regulator rated at 35 amps. It appears from the list Matchless compiled that it came on a couple of bikes. I'm thinking about picking one up. Any thoughts?

 

[posplayr]

Jim,

I see from the Shindengen site that the SH775 is a series type regulator rated at 35 amps. It appears from the list Matchless compiled that it came on a couple of bikes. I'm thinking about picking one up. Any thoughts?

I dd a seach on SH775 and this is the only thing I found.:-&

http://www.goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=180

But I found the link at the Shindengen website. Looks like it is a series R/R and they are going to be making 2 more.

http://www.shindengen.co.jp/product_e/electro/catalog.html

I looked up the part number for the

Honda CBR1000RR 05? Shindengen SH775 12V 35 Amp rating, 14.0 - 15.0V

And it doesn't match the FH775 shape from the data sheet. The Honda unit has two long pigtails and connectors. The SH775 is much like the FET type .

I'm pretty sure if you can find a SH775 it will be SERIES. The diagram shows all SCR's and that is how the guy at CycleElectric described the internals of his SERIES R/R to me.

 

[Billy Ricks]

Thanks, I have a message sent to a seller on Ebay to check the number on the side of the r/r he has for sale.

 

[Guest]

The infamous POS!!!!

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

Most of the new bikes are having problems with all the electrical equipment on today's bikes, someone didn't do their homework.. I heard some of it is due too improper rotor magnetism. What ever, they should be reading these posts. You are doing there work

 

[Billy Ricks]

Most of the new bikes are having problems with all the electrical equipment on today's bikes, someone didn't do their homework.. I heard some of it is due too improper rotor magnetism. What ever, they should be reading these posts. You are doing there work

Much of the problem is the same as with our old bikes. Location of the r/r under plastic fairings keeps them too hot.

 

[posplayr]

Most of the new bikes are having problems with all the electrical equipment on today's bikes, someone didn't do their homework.. I heard some of it is due too improper rotor magnetism. What ever, they should be reading these posts. You are doing there work

The Permanent Magnet(PM) charging systems are surprisingly unchanged in the more modern bikes. They still need three components:

• stator
• PM rotor
• R/R

it is generally understood what these parts do, but it the magnetics of the rotor which actually plays a very important part in keeping the system working. A PM generator in theory puts out power which rises to the square of the RPM. The square law effect only starts to taper off and eventually flattens out when the magnetic field saturates. In other words there is an overall output limit based on the PM rotor magnetics. If I recall, the rotors are actually specified in terms of the power output capability.

This works out well because our bikes need quite a bit of current just at idle (10-12 amps) and they tend to max out at about 14-15 amps by 2500 3000 rpm. If it were not for the magnetic saturation effects of the rotor, the R/R /stator would really be struggling to control all the available power as the RPM increases. Remember power would increase to the square of the RPM.

So from an overall design perspective (that sometimes I think the motorcycle manufacturers have forgotten somewhere along the line), the R/R is really only trimming the power to the battery for a system that tends to saturate (i.e limit it's output) as the RPM rises. Bottom line is the rotor power chracteristic is matched to the charging system load characteristics.

From what I read on one of the Aprilla forums, the manufacturer decided they needed to up the charging output one year and so they increased the magnetic strength in the rotor. This increased the higher total output power more than they apparently realized and caused a bunch of burned stators. The biggest stress on the stator is when the SHUNT R/R shorts it's windings. The SERIES R/R is comparatively much better because just opens the windings and would have not caused the issue.

So for future growth, the manufacturers will eventually realize they can add a 20% increase in the rotor size and the SERIES R/R can easily regulate down the power as if it was only 10 or 11% more required. The SHUNT design on the other hand would have to absorb the 9-10% extra stress that is not being used by the 20% increase in the PM rotor power capacity. This extra stress is what makes a poor SHUNT design start to fail.

Since the modern bikes need more output power for fuel injection and other electronics controls than our old GS's, and their demand requirements actually keep rising with RPM(fuel injection power keeps rising with RPM), manufacturers of the high performance bikes are faced with increasing the power output capacity and trying to tailor it to the newer electrical demand requirements. An alternator does this very well by limiting the electromagnets strength when the output power is not needed. In stead of using alternators they will switch over to the SERIES R/R designs. When you look at what it takes to to build a SERIES v.s FET R/R it is amazing to me that they ever built the FET regulators. They should have just said "I could have had a V-8" and just jumped directly to the SERIES R/R. It really should be a pretty big embarrassment to the motorcycle industry in general. The electrical load assumptions of the 30 year designs which allowed the shunt design to exist for so long are being violated by modern fuel injected designs and the SHUNT and even FET designs are showing their design heritage age.

I can only imagine that the rotor, stator and R/R are all being made by different entrenched manufacturers and so with the finger pointing going on the problems have persisted. Hopefully it wont be long and we will benefit as these bikes convert over to a SERIES R/R's and the used market starts to change over.

 

[salty_monk]

That Goldwing site has a mention of the Oregon Motorsports unit that we tested & proved was not a Series RR...

 

[posplayr]

That Goldwing site has a mention of the Oregon Motorsports unit that we tested & proved was not a Series RR...

I know, I thought it was kinda ironic and just shows how the folklore can develop.

I found some posts by a very experienced mechanic (on the Aprilla forum) that did a trial on a compufire and he concluded because he did not see a temperature difference on a water cooled bike that there was no benefit to the SERIES R/R.

 

[GS1000G Shopper]

That Goldwing site has a mention of the Oregon Motorsports unit that we tested & proved was not a Series RR...

I'm going through some old posts and doing a lot of reading on series R/R units. I visited the Oregon site, and I can see how a buyer could get the wrong idea. It's likely not intentional, as they use the term "series" on many of their items, as in a line of items or a series of items. When they do this on the R/R page, the natural inference is that it's a series R/R.

The SH775 still seems to be made of unobtanium.

 

[salty_monk]

I have told the guy how it tested out so he's well aware that it's not a series type now....

I read something on one website that the reason Shunt was originally selected rather than Series was because the Series unit could fail in such a way that it would subject the bikes electrical system to a huge voltage.. I haven't seen Pos for a while but it was something I wanted to discuss with him when I did.