Late model r/r unit

[BassCliff]

Hello friends,

I'm planning to work on my bike later tonight, after company leaves. I have a spare stator and a few spare r/r units. I'm going to replace both, not that I suspect the r/r but I want to try out this late model 7-wire unit (from a CBR) that I picked up off ebay. Last night I sawed/filed one of the bolt holes (to make for easier installation under the battery box) and put on connectors.

The other ground strap will get a circle connector so that I can put one ground on the (-)battery and the other on the frame. Both hot wires will go into the harness connector, which goes through the fusebox to the (+)battery. Testing showed that my stator is putting out only about 10-12vAC on each leg (should be 60 - 70vAC or better) and there is only .3 ohm resistance (should be .5 - 2.0 ohms) between the legs. It's an Electrosport stator, less than a year and a half old.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Nessism]

Mr. Cliff,

Thought you had an RM Stator stator? Guess it's good to have spares.

Can you tell any difference between the RM Stator and Electrosport? They appear to be identical in photos I've seen.

Good luck,

 

[Billy Ricks]

Mr. Cliff,

Thought you had an RM Stator stator? Guess it's good to have spares.

Can you tell any difference between the RM Stator and Electrosport? They appear to be identical in photos I've seen.

Good luck,

I believe they are the same as well. The one I picked up in October is weak. The stock stator is supposed to put out a minimum of 80 vac at 5000 rpm, the new RM is putting out just under 50. RM claims their stators put out up to 20% more juice than stock so I expected to see 90 vac or more when I checked voltage. At idle I get about 15 vac. I didn't want to think the stator was weak so I checked out a few other things before finally checking stator output. I'll be sending mine back for replacement next week.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

The RMStator is my spare. I bought an Electrosport while waiting on the RMA procedure and turnaround time from RMStator. Yes, the two look amazingly similar. Maybe I'll try a Rick's part next time.

RMStator was great to deal with and replaced their part under warranty. I think the warranty period has just expired on my Electrosport part. I'll check my records.

I wonder if there's something else going on with my bike that causes it to eat stators? It's time to follow my own advice and make sure every connection on the bike is clean, again.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Nessism]

Not sure what can kill a stator. If it's wired directly to the R/R, and thats wired direct to the battery...I don't understand what could go wrong.

Regarding cleaning electrical connections, Detoxit is reputed to be pretty good stuff. Fry's sells it. Get the type that is safe for plastic if you don't already have some.

 

[bakalorz]

I believe they are the same as well. The one I picked up in October is weak. The stock stator is supposed to put out a minimum of 80 vac at 5000 rpm, the new RM is putting out just under 50. RM claims their stators put out up to 20% more juice than stock so I expected to see 90 vac or more when I checked voltage. At idle I get about 15 vac. I didn't want to think the stator was weak so I checked out a few other things before finally checking stator output. I'll be sending mine back for replacement next week.

I wonder if maybe they use a heavier guage thicker wire to allow more current.
If the physical space where the wire can go is the same, they would likely have to use less turns, so less voltage.

I don't know, just speculating.

 

[Nessism]

I wonder if maybe they use a heavier guage thicker wire to allow more current.
If the physical space where the wire can go is the same, they would likely have to use less turns, so less voltage.

I don't know, just speculating.

I have one of those stators and the wire gauge does look thicker than stock, although I haven't measured it.

 

[BassCliff]

Not sure what can kill a stator. If it's wired directly to the R/R, and thats wired direct to the battery...I don't understand what could go wrong.

Hey Ed, so you think I'm just having bad luck with stators? I suppose it's possible. You just can't get a good, cheap Chinese made stator any more. What's the world coming to?

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[BassCliff]

Hey!

Our visitors left at 10pm. I just finished putting Jessie back together. She's charging 14v at 2000 rpm. I didn't want to rev any higher this time of night. I think I'm good to go.

There were a few cooked bare wires on the old stator that I could see. Bummer.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Redman]

Hello friends,
...........
r but I want to try out this late model 7-wire unit (from a CBR) that I picked up off ebay. Last night I sawed/filed one of the bolt holes (to make for easier installation under the battery box) ...................
..............
BassCliff

Nice of you to wait for friends to leave before working on your bike. And your bike, er, Jesse, was out of service. Under those circumstances I might have concidered asking friends out into the garage, hey, I got extra 5 gallon buckets they could sit on. har har

I too have used a Honda R/R (got from Dunnage).
And I too cut out that front mounting hole into a slot. Was kinda impressed with myself that I thought of that after struggling with that front bolt.
And, I too, am enjoying the higher charging voltage of well over 14 instead of barley 13. Especially since now have the "sealed" batterys that can better tolerate the higher charging voltage. My understanding is that the older open/vented type batterys would loose electrolite level if charged at that high of a voltage (so I think that is why the stock r/r from 70s-80s regulate at the lower voltage - my opinion)

I dont know about the Honda r/r you got, but the Honda r/r I got; one of the "extra" wires was a sence wire, could wire directly to "battery" red wire and it would work, but will be a slight drain when bike is off. I measured it, was several milliamps, so not much but enough to drain battery somewhat over several/many days, so wired it into a circuit that is switched off when ignition off (brake light circuit, per Dunnage instructions). I dont recall specifically, but that "extra" wire I had that is "sense" wire wasnt red like yours, so maybe not the same as yours.

Good that you got her back in service.

 

[Nessism]

I too have used a Honda R/R (got from Dunnage). And I too cut out that front mounting hole into a slot.
And, I too, am enjoying the higher charging voltage of 14+ instead of barley 13. Especially since now have the "sealed" batterys that can better tolerate the higher charging voltage. My understanding is that The older open/vented type batterys would loose electrolite level if charged at that high of a voltage (so I think that is why the stock r/r from 70s-80s regulate at the lower voltage, my opinion)

I dont know about the Honda r/r you got, but the Honda r/r I got; one of the "extra" wires was a sence wire, could wire directly to "battery" red wire and it would work, but will be a slight drain when bike is off. I measured it, was several milliamps, so not much but enough to drain battery somewhat over several/many days. I dont recall specifically, but that "extra" wire I had that is "sense" wire wasnt red like yours, so maybe not the same as yours.

Good that you got her back in service.

Sorry Redman if this sounds contrary but the charging voltage spec from Suzuki is roughly 14 - 15.5 volts at 5000 rpm. The charging system is supposed to put out this much. 15.5 is pretty high in the battery's tolerance range, but acceptable apparently, or at least Suzuki felt so. I'm not aware of sealed batteries tolerating more voltage, but it makes since to some extent because they retain fluid better.

 

[rustybronco]

"optimum" charging voltage ranges as I have found.

AGM 14.2-14.9v

Lead Acid 14.2-14.5v

 

[BassCliff]

I too have used a Honda R/R (got from Dunnage).
And I too cut out that front mounting hole into a slot. Was kinda impressed with myself that I thought of that after struggling with that front bolt.

Yes Mr. Redman, I took your recommendation as far as opening up the bolt hole. It made installation a lot easier. This newer r/r unit was thicker and I had to find a couple of longer bolts. But with one hole cut out it was pretty easy to install.

On the 7-wire units there is no sense wire, just two grounds and two hots along with the three stator inputs. It must do internal voltage regulation. I still have my duaneage specials ready to reinstall if necessary.

I did ask Mrs. BassCliff is she wanted to help. Guess what her answer was.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[propflux01]

My stator, and hte ones previously installed, never had more then 50-55 VAC, I had just thought it was maybe because my rotor magnet was possbly weaker than normally should be, however, had no charging issues because of it.

 

[rustybronco]

I think the warranty period has just expired on my Electrosport part. I'll check my records.

I wonder if there's something else going on with my bike that causes it to eat stators?

There were a few cooked bare wires on the old stator that I could see. Bummer.

If they don't warranty that stator, how much would you like for it?*
I would like to use it for testing/disassembling/inspecting/rewinding/ installing and testing as per Posplayr thread purposes...

*(pretty please with sugar on top.)

 

[Redman]

Sorry Redman if this sounds contrary but the charging voltage spec from Suzuki is roughly 14 - 15.5 volts at 5000 rpm. The charging system is supposed to put out this much. .

Thanks.

"optimum" charging voltage ranges as I have found.

AGM 14.2-14.9v

Lead Acid 14.2-14.5v

Thanks.

Thanks Guys. That was some time ago I looked into this.
Thanks for reminding me of the specifics.

...............

On the 7-wire units there is no sense wire, just two grounds and two hots along with the three stator inputs. It must do internal voltage regulation.
.............
BassCliff

Intersting that Honda has some with sense wire and some without.

Oh, and my complements on your use of heat shrink tubeing.

And nice of you to invite your wife out to the garage to spend some time together. You could have shown her the difference between these 3 regulators you have, and discussed stators and other such important isssues.

.

 

[bwringer]

I wonder if maybe they use a heavier guage thicker wire to allow more current.
If the physical space where the wire can go is the same, they would likely have to use less turns, so less voltage.

I don't know, just speculating.

This is exactly what they did. 45-50VAC from an aftermarket stator is normal.

Thicker wire = fewer turns, BUT = more current.

More current =

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Thanks to Mr. posplayer and his charging system lesson today, I found out that there is a .5v difference between what my r/r is putting out and what my (+)battery is seeing. When I rev up the motor, that difference becomes greater, as much as 1v for a split second at one point during testing. That means I need to replace my fusebox as that is about the only thing between the r/r output and the (+)battery input. And this could be why my bike has eaten a stator every 8 or 10 months since I've owned it. Bad connections = too much resistance = too much heat = Trouble, Trouble with a capital "T" and that rhymes with "C" and that stands for Corrosion.

Clean connections, ladies and gentlemen. That makes your electrical system very happy. Clean connections everywhere.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Steve]

Don't end this thread here, BassCliff.

Let us know what happens after you change it. ray:

.

 

[Nessism]

Hi,

Thanks to Mr. posplayer and his charging system lesson today, I found out that there is a .5v difference between what my r/r is putting out and what my (+)battery is seeing. When I rev up the motor, that difference becomes greater, as much as 1v for a split second at one point during testing. That means I need to replace my fusebox as that is about the only thing between the r/r output and the (+)battery input. And this could be why my bike has eaten a stator every 8 or 10 months since I've owned it. Bad connections = too much resistance = too much heat = Trouble, Trouble with a capital "T" and that rhymes with "C" and that stands for Corrosion.

Clean connections, ladies and gentlemen. That makes your electrical system very happy. Clean connections everywhere.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

Swapping out the fuse box seems extreme. Are you sure that's necessary?

If the stator wires are attached directly to the R/R wires, there won't be any resistance build up. Negative wire out of the R/R can go direct to the battery, or split the wires and run one of those green wires to the frame and the other to the battery. Again, no resistance build up there. The only place where resistance can build up is on the positive side of the circuit. On the Honda CBR wiring diagram, they run the + (red) wire direct to the battery with an in-line fuse. That's what I did when installing a CBR R/R in my 850. I ran the other red wire and fed it into the harness where the old Suzuki R/R fed the system. Not sure if feeding the harness is necessary but I didn't think it would hurt. At any rate, I don't see how there will be any resistance in the circuit since almost all the wires are feeding direct. Changing the fuse box would do no good unless you are running the power though it. Bypass and the problem goes away.