leaking gaskets

[Hoggystyle]

so i got my first ride in this winter today, after valve adjustment, rebuilt carbs(still a little rough) and rebuild brakes. after a few miles i started smelling smoke, so i pulled off and the engine is dripping oil. a drop or so every few seconds. in one spot it is leaking right above the exhaust, where the head sits on the cylinder wall, and then off the the left(facing forward). im not sure if its only the head gasket or the base gasket as well. i guess wat im asking is whether a head and base gasket is all i need or do i need a full rebuild kit. it seems like as soon as i fix something, another problem pops up but hopefully this is the last big thing. i rode it around when i bought it and it didnt leak oil, i adjusted the valves so maybe the torque did something and threw it out of whack. let me know what you think, thank you!

 

[Hoggystyle]

oh, and i checked the oil in the crankcase after my ride and is smelled of gas. it goes without saying i will change the oil and filter. could that have damaged anything?

 

[Nessism]

Maybe the valve cover is leaking and oil running down?

Gas in the oil should be corrected immediately, but not tragic unless you ride the bike a lot.

 

[Hoggystyle]

i checked the valve cover and watched it while it was running, it is definitely leaking from the cylinder head, right above the exhaust pipe. under the valve cover is dry all the way around so i can rule that out. i ordered new filters for the oil but dont know what to do yet about gaskets. i'd like to go OEM as ive heard nothing good about aftermarket gaskets for the head. is this a job i can tackle by myself and is there any extra parts i should get before i tear down? ive done valve adjustments and rebuilt the carbs and that want difficult but actually going into the motor is something i havent done yet and am a little apprehensive about.

 

[Big T]

Did you confirm it's not the tach drive that's leaking?

I just mention that because the fins on the cylinder head have a way of making the oil seem to be coming out somehwere other than were the leak is.

Before tearing into it, clean the motor and sprinkle it with talcum powder to confirm where the leak originates


If you;re going to tear it down, replace all the gaskets, O rings and the half moons to boot. You may also need cam chain guides and piston rings

Pulling down the top end of the motor is pretty easy, especially when you have a FSM and the GSR

 

[Nessism]

How can it be the cylinder head if it's leaking "right above the exhaust pipe"? Above the exhaust pipe is the valve cover, or the tack drive. Can you post some photos showing the leak area?

 

[Hoggystyle]

thats true, i think i just assumed becuase it was dripping from the seam on the cylinder head, but at first glance it looked like it was coming from the exhaust pipe which im sure isnt likely. also the tach drive cable end is dry

 

[Nessism]

Well...might well be the head gasket, but do as Big T suggests and confirm before tearing stuff apart.

OEM gaskets all the way. Check ebay, sometimes you can find good deals on original Suzuki gaskets.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/77-79-OEM-S...es&vxp=mtr&hash=item43ad980935#ht_1291wt_1396

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-OEM-VIN...ies&vxp=mtr&hash=item2ebb8b2435#ht_669wt_1163

 

[Hoggystyle]

ill do that tomorrow and source the leak for sure, but in the case of it being a bad head gasket, do i need anything else? any special tools or seals?

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

that does look like a head gasket

 

[Big T]

ill do that tomorrow and source the leak for sure, but in the case of it being a bad head gasket, do i need anything else? any special tools or seals?

Probably no special tools

But, I get some Gunk and scrub up the front of the motor real good. You've got layers of baked on oil there

BTW, probably the valve cover gasket, on the short inside run, is leaking

 

[Hoggystyle]

well ill see what i can do tomorrow. ill clean the engine up really well and see if i can get some athletes powder or something of the sort and trace this leak. maybe i'll get lucky and all i'll need to do is readjust the valve cover. it was leaking before the valve adjust so that could be the culprit but tomorrow will tell all

 

[Hoggystyle]

well it looks to be in the inside of the rectangular divit on valve cover, but i cand be sure until i cane go for a long ride, which i cant do right now because of mt carburetors. the PO never adjusted the valves but rejetted for a 4-1 so when i did the valves it ran way too rich. so im at 87.5 mains, and the needle is 2nd up from the bottom, moving up one notch. its still very rich and hard to rev at all without bogging so im thinking this needle position isnt needed. i also have the original airbox, sealed, with a uni-filter. any thoughts while this thread is still alive?

 

[Big T]

well it looks to be in the inside of the rectangular divit on valve cover, but i cand be sure until i cane go for a long ride, which i cant do right now because of mt carburetors. the PO never adjusted the valves but rejetted for a 4-1 so when i did the valves it ran way too rich. so im at 87.5 mains, and the needle is 2nd up from the bottom, moving up one notch. its still very rich and hard to rev at all without bogging so im thinking this needle position isnt needed. i also have the original airbox, sealed, with a uni-filter. any thoughts while this thread is still alive?

You have to check all the settings on the VM carbs to achieve a proper tune. It's not just the main jet

Fuel screws - 3/4 turn out
Air screws - 1 1/2 to 2 turns
Mains - you have 87.5
Pilots - ?
Needle - middle of 5

 

[Hoggystyle]

i did the rebuild with the basscliff tutorial, and set it to his numbers, but i think i might have mixed the fuel/air screws. the fuel screw is the one on the bottom of the float bowl that runs horizontal correct? once i have the motor rebuilt ill be able to fine tune the carbs

i found that it was indeed my head gasket that was leaking, and that the po never had exhaust gaskets with the 4-1, so i tore down the top end and decided to just take it down to the base and replace with all new gaskets and oil seals. the cylinders are smooth as glass, no scoring and everything looks alright besides a few burnt valves unfortunately, but im debating whether or not to just ride it as it is as ive already dumped so much money into this bike already. parts add up so fast its hard to keep track anymore

 

[2BRacing]

The motor will never run as smoothly as it should with burnt valves. I suggest you ask in the "wanted" section for good second hand valves. Lap them in so they seal nicely on your seats and that will be a lot better than leaving burnt valves in. Replace the valve guide seals, hone the cylinders lightly to remove the glaze, and that motor should run well again for relatively little extra cost.

 

[bbjumper]

As long as you already have it torn down I think it would be a total waste of time and the money that you have already invested just to put it back together and hope for the best.

I recently completed just what your talking about, re cut the valves, honed the cylinder, new rings, gaskets and valve stem seals. with the top end healthy and maintained properly your scoot will last a LONG time, give you great service and a bunch of fun.

It cost me around $ 500.00 to get everything done including the machine shop work. No doubt a chunk of cash but now she runs like new and I won't need to do that again unless I screw up and don't take care of it.

This was worth it to me considering what I have now and what it would cost to replace it.

Cheers

 

[Hoggystyle]

ok so ive been reading around and want to clarify something before i start spending cash. my 3 exhaust valves are white, or mostly white, and i read that is not necessarily a bad thing and is common. i never had the chance to do a compression test before i took the head off, but the bike ran fairly smooth, even with the tight valves and decrepit carb o-rings. so does white on the valve mean it is burnt, or just ran very lean. i know these go hand in hand usually but im jsut making sure before i go drop another 100 bucks on parts. if i need to then of course i gotta make my girl happy

 

[2BRacing]

Lean combustion (higher heat) and too small or zero valve clearance will result in a "burnt" valve. However, just by looking at the colour on the valve is not an indicator that the valve is "burnt" or not.

A valve is "burnt" when the inner seat area that mates with the seat in the head (i.e. you cannot see that part without removing the valve from the head) has become so hot that it has melted or distorted the face area of the valve. When the clearance is too small or zero, the valve cannot close completely onto the seat and cool down enough from making contact with the valve seat, and the thin edge becomes melted or distorted.

Now that you have already removed the cylinder head, you should also remove the valves and inspect the seat area to determine if they have burnt or not. Clean the carbon off and use valve grinding paste and a wooden handle with rubber valve "sucker" to lap the valves onto the seats to obtain a good seal. Twirl the wooden handle backwards and forwards between your palms until there is a greyish circle of even width around the valve and seat. Clean all grinding paste off very well.

Use new valve guide oil seals when re-assembling.

 

[Hoggystyle]

is there a way to compress the valve springs to see the seat without pulling the valves? im not trying to bitch, but ive put around 2 grand into a 400 dollar bike already and havent been able to ride it for 6 months, so you can understand im getting anxious