Lithium Iron battery won't stay charge on the bike

[Guest]

Hey All,

I couldn't find much information on my issue here. I'm trying to run a Lithium Iron battery in my 1980 Honda CB650c but it doesn't seem to want to charge on the bike and the bike will actually die while I ride it if I don't keep it revved hard. I can barely get it to go over 13 volts at 5k rpms. I tried it in another bike and the same thing happened. I put a Lead Acid battery in the CB650 and it charged on the bike as it should. 14.6 volts at 5k rpms.

Here's a link to the battery: http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tende...55994213&sr=8-2&keywords=lithium+iron+charger

I didn't get the charger with the battery and have been using a Noco Genius G750 charger. I just saw on their website that they don't recommend this charger for Lithium Iron batteries because, "NOCO Genius chargers simply do not go into pulsing desulfation/recovery mode. And it is high voltage desulfation that damages a lithium battery, not pulsing current." I've charged the battery on it a few times up to over 14 volts I believe. Is there some sort of mode in the battery that needs unlocked with a different charger to be able to accept charge from my bikes charging system? Or are Lithium Iron batteries just not compatible with older bikes?

 

[Guest]

I've heard of lithium ion batteries, but never lithium iron batteries. Hmmm.

 

[almarconi]

If you are sure the charging system is working properly, I would suspect a defective battery. Since it behaved the same in two different bikes I would return the battery and get another one. It makes sense to purchase a charger that is compatible with the battery. The battery tender for LiFePO4 battery is $30. Another option would be to save some money and purchase an AGM battery.

 

[Guest]

Lithium batteries are great but they are also really finicky.
They work great in a modern car with electronics+software designed to make them last for a long time.
But you need good voltage control and can ruin them if you deep discharge them too much.


A member of the Suzuki 2 stroke forum was working on a cafe build a while ago.
Had a lithium battery and accidentally left the key on overnight.
That one event ruined the battery before the build was finished.

 

[almarconi]

Lithium batteries are great but they are also really finicky.
They work great in a modern car with electronics+software designed to make them last for a long time.
But you need good voltage control and can ruin them if you deep discharge them too much.

I read about this as well, it is possible that the output from the older charging systems are not regulated adequately.

 

[Joe H]

They HATE cold and discharge rapidly in cold temps?don't know if thats the problem?just a thought. And they are finicky about charge voltages and if they discharge to many times they die.
AGM are a better choice, at least they were a few years ago, battery tech changes fast now.

 

[Guest]

I've been through two of them. Very touchy batteries. They also go stone cold dead after they get down to about 10 or 10.5 volts. It's like they go 12, 11,10, zero. Mine showed zero volts, I charged it for 5 minutes with an old school charger and it showed 12.7. I don't trust them at all.

 

[Guest]

I read about this as well, it is possible that the output from the older charging systems are not regulated adequately.

Yes.
16V at high rpm was considered normal on some Suzuki two strokes when they were new. That?s way too much.
How good are the 30-year-old GS-series regulator/rectifiers ? results probably vary.


I?d go with an AGM battery unless you have a custom bike & don?t have the room for one.

 

[Grimly]

Previous posters pretty much summed it up.
I wouldn't use one unless I also splashed out on a tightly-controlled modern regulator that's tailored to what the battery needs.
A salient point is - the battery should have some inbuilt protection against excessive discharge - that it doesn't, isn't a sign of good design or manufacture.
Last thing you need is a lithium bomb under your seat.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Tedious listening to videos, but this answered all questions about batteries.
I also see the Bikemaster Lithium Iron Phosphate battery has this feature:-Built-in charge and equalizing protection board, preventing battery from over-charging.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for all the responses. I'm returning the battery and getting an AGM one and then reconfiguring my battery box. I think these Lithium Iron batteries just aren't compatible with older charging systems. I actually had another Lithium Iron battery before this one that I thought was bad because it was acting the same way. So two of these batteries by different companies and neither acted right. Anyway, I hope this helps someone in the future.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

I can recall several threads about Lithium batteries here over the past few years. The first guy said they were great, but just a couple weeks later he said it caught fire!!!
Last year people were all excited about the Battery Tender Lithium Battery, now your tale kinda puts a chip in that one.
I might try the Bikemaster Lithium Iron Phosphate battery in my track bike.

 

[argonsagas]

I've heard of lithium ion batteries, but never lithium iron batteries. Hmmm.

Even without the use of starch, after a through iron session they become flat and smooth, so they fit nicely into smaller spaces.

 

[Guest]

Alright, so I've still been trying to figure out this battery situation. I just found out today that everything SEEMS to be working properly when I hook up a 12ah AGM battery to the bike, even though it should have a 14ah battery according to the manual. It gets over 14v at 5,000 RPMs. When I try it with a 9ah AGM battery by the same make it only goes a little over 13v at 5,000 RPMs.

My questions are:
What am I missing about amp hours here?
Why would different amp hours affect the charging rate?

Also, I've completely replaced every other part of the charging system. New rotor, stator, R/R, and ever rotor brushes. I also went through the manuals testing of the charging system and an even more detail charging system test I found online.

And incase anyone is wondering, I'm trying to get the smallest battery possible because I bought this bike as an unfinished CB650 bobber project so I can't have a big 10lb battery hanging off it.

 

[JJ]

And incase anyone is wondering, I'm trying to get the smallest battery possible because I bought this bike as an unfinished CB650 bobber project so I can't have a big 10lb battery hanging off it.

If you choose to restrict your battery choices to be "cool", then live with it...

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the insite JJ. Keep up the good work.

 

[hannibal]

My understanding of amp hours is that a 14 Ah bettery can produce 14A for an hour, or 28A for 30 mins, or 7A for 2 hours, etc.

Perhaps the ability to produce more current ifor a given period of time is related to charging rates. I've never heard this but it could make sense.

 

[Grimly]

I have an 8Ah AGM battery in my XS650 (kickstart only), in place of the 14Ah - the charging voltage is absolutely normal.

 

[Guest]

Make sure the batteries are fully charged before you do your testing. Otherwise you might just be comparing one fully charged battery to another that's half charged.

 

[eil]

My questions are:
What am I missing about amp hours here?
Why would different amp hours affect the charging rate?

The capacity of the batteries affects nothing about how the batteries behave except for how long it takes to charge (and discharge them).

The most likely explanation is that the two batteries are at different levels of charge. The battery which has less charge will draw more current, which can pull the voltage down somewhat. A fully charged battery will not draw much current and will show full voltage across the terminals. To check this, charge both batteries fully before putting them on the bike.

Another explanation is that one of the batteries is bad. If you charge them both off the bike and still get the same results, then one of them is probably a goner.