Motorcycle Motor Oil

[srsupertrap]

The argument over which is the best motorcycle oil has probably been going on for, as long as there have been motorcycles. Here is an excellent article from Motorcycle Consumer News, "What's the Right Oil For Your Bike?" By Jeffrey P. DiCarlo Published August 2000.

My Opinion:

1. Only use SG rated motor oil in your GS series motor.

2. Don't use automotive motor oil in your GS motor; tests have shown conclusively the viscosity breaks down significantly within 800 to 1000 miles.

PS: Look for Part II

http://www.mediafire.com/?5jo2xh0yoyf

 

[hoyterb]

Bumping this thread with another article on oils.
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html






BTW:this link doesn't work.
http://www.mediafire.com/?5jo2xh0yoyf

 

[Nessism]

Bumping this thread with another article on oils.
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Thanks for the link. Great read that dispells lots of the urban legend involving engine oil. Should be a sticky.

Bottom line: Synthetic oil is superior; doesn't make your clutch slip or cause break-in problems, and lasts longer than dino. Oil for diesel engines is another good choice for people that don?t like paying four times as much for motorcycle specific oils.

 

[hoyterb]

IMHO Shell Rotella T 5w40 syn is the most cost-effective oil you can use in most engines.Don't get me wrong but AMSOIL and Mobile 1 are over-priced for what they are.That article sheds a LOT of light on the "claims" of the oil- man's hype.

 

[Guest]

Basically what I got from the article was that if you change your oil every 1000 miles like you're supposed to any old oil will do. Very good info.

 

[Steve]

Basically what I got from the article was that if you change your oil every 1000 miles like you're supposed to any old oil will do. Very good info.

Where is it written (with any authority) that you are supposed to change the oil every 1000 miles? :shock:

I know the owner's manual tends to recommend longer intervals, but I have never seen anything about 1000-mile intervals. Personally, I could not afford that. Some people, for whom the motorcycle is a toy, might only ride about 1000 miles in a season, so yeah, that's a good interval. I live in oHIo, where we have a limited season, so I only get to ride 15-20,000 miles a year. Pick your favorite motorcycle oil at $3-4 per quart, add in a $10 filter and you have a $25 oil change, assuming you do it yourself. Multiply that by 15 and you get $375 per season for oil changes. I don't think so.

I have not seen an owner's manual for either of the GSs in my garage, so I don't know what Suzuki recommends for them. The last manual I read for an air-cooled bike was my '77 KZ650, and it had 3000 mile (5000 km) intervals. I have two water-cooled bikes in the garage. The book for the Yamaha Venture Royale suggests 7600 miles. The book for my Wing suggests 8000 miles. I treat all my engines, bikes and cars, to fresh oil and filter every 5000 miles. It's real easy to keep track of the interval and I have never had any oil-related problems. And it's not like I don't keep my vehicles, either. I have had 3 vehicles with over 300,000 miles and a 4th one that is quickly approaching 300,000. My Wing has over 125,000, my wife's 850 has 58,000+.

If changing at 1000 miles makes you comfortable, great, but please leave some oil on the shelf for when I need some, OK? :-s


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[Nessism]

Where is it written (with any authority) that you are supposed to change the oil every 1000 miles? :shock:


.

In the article it indicates that regular automotive motor oil starts to break down to the point of compromising it's function sometime after the 1000 mile mark. Working backwards we can assume that regular auto oil is safe to use as long as its changed frequently - such as at 1500 miles.

Wallmart sells gallon jugs of auto oil for about $7, diesel oil for $10 and synthetic for $16. The more expensive oils will last longer thus offsetting the price. If using the cheap stuff, and changing at short intervals, there is no reason to change the filter with every change.

My view is that frequent oil changes with cheap auto oil is a viable route for people that don’t take long trips and enjoy working on their bike. Only caveat is if running an air cooled bike in high summer temps – synthetic has better staying power in that situation and is worth the extra money (my opinion of course).

 

[bonanzadave]

I changed my oil for the first 20k miles ( every 1k miles ) with good ol 10W40 Valvoline. Same stuff I used in every car / truck Ive ever owned. The crank twisted at about 6k miles and looking back by all rights they could have tried to say I voided my warranty by using a non recommended oil. They never asked. I also had clutch discs frag on me that could have been oil related. I dont know. On a hot humid day in traffic Ive seen that oil temp gauge nearly peg ! Thats almost 400 degrees. Other than that the engine is as clean as new.

This summer Im gonna try some different oils recommended by the GSR riders. Im anxious to ride and see the results.

 

[tone]

Aaah this old chesnut again, good article but i'm sure with a bit of time on google we could find one just as well written that says the complete opposite

This it just from my own experiance & is not meant as a definitive guide ie make your own decisions .............. In every gs, gsx & gsxr ive ever owned (20+) all ive ever used is plain castrol gtx changed around every 2000 miles with a filter change every second one (genuine filter) & ive never had a problem never changed a clutch never blown a gearbox or twisted a crank, i ride hard so dont think its just i'm easy on engines i'm definately not :-D

Of the last tuned engines we built 1 showed significant wear after 100miles on fully synth but its "twin" showed minimal wear after 500miles on gtx

as i say draw your own conclusions :-D

 

[Guest]

Where is it written (with any authority) that you are supposed to change the oil every 1000 miles? :shock:

I know the owner's manual tends to recommend longer intervals, but I have never seen anything about 1000-mile intervals. Personally, I could not afford that. Some people, for whom the motorcycle is a toy, might only ride about 1000 miles in a season, so yeah, that's a good interval. I live in oHIo, where we have a limited season, so I only get to ride 15-20,000 miles a year. Pick your favorite motorcycle oil at $3-4 per quart, add in a $10 filter and you have a $25 oil change, assuming you do it yourself. Multiply that by 15 and you get $375 per season for oil changes. I don't think so.

I have not seen an owner's manual for either of the GSs in my garage, so I don't know what Suzuki recommends for them. The last manual I read for an air-cooled bike was my '77 KZ650, and it had 3000 mile (5000 km) intervals. I have two water-cooled bikes in the garage. The book for the Yamaha Venture Royale suggests 7600 miles. The book for my Wing suggests 8000 miles. I treat all my engines, bikes and cars, to fresh oil and filter every 5000 miles. It's real easy to keep track of the interval and I have never had any oil-related problems. And it's not like I don't keep my vehicles, either. I have had 3 vehicles with over 300,000 miles and a 4th one that is quickly approaching 300,000. My Wing has over 125,000, my wife's 850 has 58,000+.

If changing at 1000 miles makes you comfortable, great, but please leave some oil on the shelf for when I need some, OK? :-s


.

Clymer recomends every 1500 miles using motorcycle oil. From people I've talked to, most have said that good car oil is fine. The 1000 mile intercal came from a mechanic who recomended it simply because these are air-cooled bikes. At $2 a quart for Shell at Target an $4 for a filter every other time from Dennis Kirk, I'll spend the 10 minutes every couple of weeks to keep her going. You figure, give her a bath and pull the drain plug while your doing your safety check and detailing.

I bought Suzuki brand oil and a Suzuki flter for my first change and that cost me $25. I was told by the mechanic who does my inspections that I can get the same results and save money...different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

[Guest]

I get confused by all the gobbledegook which flows from oil discussions as each contributor tries to outdo the last with their overwhelming knowledge on the subject.I've only used a synthetic once, on the advice of an eggspurt.On a reasonably hot day I had leaks I have never had before or since.Back to the minerals (Castrol Active 4T ),oil filter and oil every 5000km and the old girl is dancin'.Cheers,Simon.\\/

 

[82Shafty]

I'd like to dispell the myth of Rotella Syn does not make an old clutch slip but I can't.

Right away... no problems...after just two months, clutch wont bite for anything... I disassembled to find everything was in spec and ordered new springs and scuffed the steels.

Here's one for the guru's.

If syn can so-call free up hp by reducing frictional losses what does a wet clutch system work off of?

Friction... I believe that it may expose a weak clutch or old fibers and weak springs that a conventional oil normally wouldn't be bothered with.

Now before I get 20 responses all saying they had 100,000 mile bike, switched over to syn on a stock clutch and it didn't slip, I'm only reporting what happened to my bike. I have seen just a few others say they had the same results and went back to conventional to solve the problem or scuffed the steels and added washers or new springs and sometimes both.

Once riding season gets under way I will report back as to whether or not the new springs and scuffing the steels took care of my problem.

I've even thought about putting two washers on the new springs for good insurance.

 

[Nessism]

Synthetic oils last longer due to their chemistry, so the oil manufacturers add a greater detergent package so users can extend the change interval. Some older engines that have marginal seals sometimes have sludge plugging oil leak paths - which the high detergent synthetic oil attacks. In my opinion this is not a fault of the oil, rather the oil can expose other weaknesses in the engine.

Regarding the clutch, synthetic oil is not more slippery per say, thus it shouldn't cause any problems. Like the oil seal leaking, it may be a case of a marginal situation inside the engine being exposed to a new parameter; synthetic oil has different characteristics, such as more viscosity stability, which will possibly expose other weaknesses in the engine. For the sake of argument, lets assume synthetic oils is more slippery and causes your clutch to slip. Based on lots of empirical evidence by various GS owners, new clutch springs will take care of the problem. A small price to pay for the knowledge that that slippery synthetic oil is inside the crankcase extending the life of all those wonder GS engines bits.

To add a couple more data points to the discussion, I've been using synthetic oil in both my GS bikes for a while now and haven't had any issues with clutch slippage. I'm not worried.

 

[srsupertrap]

Since I posted this, I have been informed the link does not work? Yet when I visited Mediafire I see more than 40 downloads of both articles? So here's both articles from Motorcycle Consumer News (Great Magazine & unbiased in my opinion). One confirmation would be appreciated. :-D

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?5jo2xh0yoyf

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?8lcglb511xy

Why shouldn't you use automotive motor oil? First your favorite motor oil isn't the same formulation due to EPA law; the EPA has eliminated the beneficial addatives from automotive grade oil. My favorite brand Castrol GTX 20W-50 isn't the same formulation it was in the 1980's. Second running automotive oil in our gearboxes shears the polymers chains in the oil. Since automotive motor oil was not designed for use in a gearbox how long can it possibly last in application it was not intended for?

I am going on memory know, but I recall reading in the Motorcycle Consumer News Part III Motorcycle Oil 2000 (I lost the article) that they tested the viscosity of used automotive motor oil from a Honda Accord after 3000 miles and found it had retained a large percentage of its initial viscosity rating (Good). Next, they ran automotive motor oil in a Japanese motorcycle for 1000 miles and tested the viscosity of the used motor oil. The results of the viscosity tests showed the automotive motor oil had significantly broken down and only retained about 60% of the initial viscosity. You want run 5W something around your engine?

I have VDO oil temperature gauge and like Bonanadave stated when our GS's get stuck in traffic that oil temperature needle moves a lot quicker than you think. Pardon the pun but most GS'ers are unaware of the degree.

PS: I have run Mobil 15W-50 Synthetic in the ST1100 will no clutch or any other ill effects

 

[Steve]

"Here's your sign!" ...er. confirmation. 8-[

First link is to part 1 of 3, second link is part 2 of 3. Article by Jeffrey P. DiCarlo.


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[Footy.]

I am going on memory know, but I recall reading in the Motorcycle Consumer News Part III Motorcycle Oil 2000 (I lost the article) that they tested the viscosity of used automotive motor oil from a Honda Accord after 3000 miles and found it had retained a large percentage of its initial viscosity rating (Good). Next, they ran automotive motor oil in a Japanese motorcycle for 1000 miles and tested the viscosity of the used motor oil. The results of the viscosity tests showed the automotive motor oil had significantly broken down and only retained about 60% of the initial viscosity. You want run 5W something around your engine?

As i understand the info, the big difference in bike against car engines, is the oil in bikes also serves the gearbox.

It is the action of the gears that breaks down the additives in mineral oils that hold the multigrade viscosity quicker. One advantage in the synthetics is they dont need so much of these additives, so the viscosity holds its spec for longer in bike engines/gearboxes.

When car engines started to use catalitic converters for emisions, they had to change the metalic anti-friction package in oils, as this "SG" spec oil contaminated the cats.

This SG spec was used in both bikes and cars up to that point, and this "old" oil spec is still seen as the best anti-friction spec for bikes.

When i bored my GS750E to 850, i used the "diesel" oil refered to during the running in period. Semi-synth and especialy fully-synth oils can cause running in problems in new bores because of some of the additives. The so called diesel oil is 15-40 turbo-diesel rated (CD) oil, that has an anti-friction package close to the old SG oil spec (diesels dont have catalictic converters).

After a 1000 miles i changed to a semi-synth 10-40 just so i could be more confident in extending my oil changes a bit when i go touring in the summer.

I think for our purposes it would be interesting it someone did viscosity change tests on our old air cooled bikes, with the "diesel" type oil and semi and full synth oils, so we got a better idea of the need to change milages.

Footy.

 

[hotspur]

SM grade oil is the latest to hit OZ. You fellas in the states would have had this for a fair time. It is getting harder to find SG oil with the higher Vis, Diesel Engine is fine but mainly only runs 15w-40.

The issue with majority of car and truck oils is that they dont have the fricton modifiers in them and the newer ones SL & SM and CI4+ in dist have the fricton modifiers to help reduce emmissions. Especially when the CI4+ is designed to meet European 100000km oil changes using a spinner filter. This stuff will glaze your bores very quickly.
Short runs which doesnt let moisture buildup etc burn off will kill the oil faster than the friction in the gearbox.

Some dist oils can be used in gearboxes, but these are mainly monograde oils.

I am lucky, in the BMW's I can nearly use anything I want, separate gearbox, Caltex Havoline Fully Syn 10w-50 is what I use in them. Western Queensland gets bloody hot.

I in the other bikes I am just using a standard 20w-50, changing it every 2000km. I get it a bit cheaper as I work for a fuel and lube company.

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. Changing the oil is better than changing the engine