New Owner, New Rider

[Worldwidekid]

Hello everyone

Introductions!1!!!1

My name is Darrell, and I live in Burbank, California at the moment (though that will probably change in the next month or so). I'm 21, and I'm a guitar tech for a company called Schecter Guitar Research, and I like long walks on the beach. I just recently took the MSF course and got my Class M1 (within the past few months). Alright, enough self-indulgence.

I was looking to buy an older used bike from a guy, but decided not to after picking up my current bike, and he sent me here. I have to say that, after sifting through the forums, I think I'm beginning to realize what I've gotten myself into.

I'd like to preface this by saying that I know absolutely nothing save what I've read in these forums and the internet about bike maintenance/repair, so feel free to smack me around if/when I say something absurd (as long as you correct me while you're at it). Okey dokey, I'll start from the top: I'd been looking for a couple months at getting a bike, and I knew I wanted something larger than 600cc after consulting some friends and riding the smaller 250s during the safety course. I stumbled upon a GS750(E?) that was local, so myself and a buddy who rides went to check it out. I realize now that due to the problems I'm having with it that I paid too much, but I'm going to chalk that up to plain old 21 year old ignorance and learn from my mistake. I paid 1000$ (based on blue-book) for the bike after my friend test-rode it and gave it an OK. He rode it back to my house for me, and I've been having problems ever since.

After a few days, the bike began to start sluggishly (I ran the bike for a few minutes every day just to ensure that everything was fine), and I noticed an oil/fuel leak. I took out my multimeter and checked the battery and it read 12.20ish volts, so I tried to charge it but to no avail. I bought a new battery, charged it, threw it in and it was working fine up until about two hours ago when I took it to a gas station to fill it up with about a gallon of fuel to see if I could troubleshoot the leak (I found the oil leak--see photos).

It was running sort of weakly, which I assumed was due to the fact that it had almost no fuel in it. I filled the tank with about a gallon and tried to start it up--but it wouldn't. I checked my petcock, put it in the up/down position and tried to start it again. I waited a few minutes, and really leaned on the starter and it started up. While I was returning the screwdriver to the kind man who lent it to me, the bike died, and with it all of my electric indicators. I cannot get any kind of results out of the bike electrically now. I had to push it home (which sucked beyond belief--I live in a pretty trafficky neighborhood), and now it sits by the curb.

The bike has been down before and it doesn't look serious, but that definitely is the cause of the oil leak. There's a small dent with a tiny tiny trickle coming out of it, but I can't even see the hole; I've got it regulated with a very hi-tech device that's controlling the flow. I'm very sorry for the length of this post, but I'm somewhat desperate so I wanted to be as thorough as a layman could possibly be. I also have more pics, but am limited to 4. Thanks for reading!

 

[Nessism]

Welcome to the forum. I'm in Torrance so it's nice to see yet another So. Calif person on the forum (there are a few of us).

If the oil leak is due to a hole in the engine side cover you could try removing the cover, cleaning with brake cleaner, and sealing the hole with JB Weld (epoxy glue). If the leak is on the gasket surface it may be even easier, replace the gasket.

To check fuel flow, remove the fuel hose and try the different petcock positions - gas should only flow in the Prime position unless you draw a vacuum on the small vacuum hose on the petcock. First step is to make sure gas is getting to the carbs. Assuming the petcock is working, you might want to check to see if there is gas in the carb floatbowls.

Hope this helps.

 

[Worldwidekid]

Thanks a ton for your time and input, but the bike isn't even turning on at this point, so I can't doublecheck my work. :?

 

[80-81, GS 1100]

Look at the bright side, you have an oppurtunity to now learn
a lot about your bike. Could it be that you have a chargeing system
problem? Running a new battery with a bad charging system can
screw it up in a hurry. There is plenty of information on this forum
about that that you can access by useing the search feature and
the top right area of the page. I may be wrong, I am no mechanic
but hopefully this post will draw out one that will help you more....

I would check that new battery and see if it still has a full charge.....

 

[tkent02]

Get you electrical troubles figured out first, then get to the oil and things.
Go through the stator papers to help you learn what is wrong.
And running it a few minutes every day is probably the worst thing you can do to it.
Should be a good one once you get it sorted out, I have had a couple of those. Nice bikes.

 

[Worldwidekid]

When I try to turn the bike on, I don't even get any of the typical lights (Oil, Neutral, etc.), not even the horn works. So somewhere the battery's juice is being stopped in its tracks. I just thought it was weird that it would just stop working all of a sudden like that.

I took off the front fairing to check out all the front-end connections, and everything looks to be in place. I took a look at the battery and it's at about 12.41, which is not a full charge as I understand it. I've read about the horrendous charging systems in these bikes, and when I bought the battery the guy even told me that if I don't have a problem now, that I would. I'll read more into the Stator Papers (I've skimmed them but most times I have no idea what I'm even reading), but if it's the typical charging problem, what would I be replacing?

 

[rphillips]

Don't start replacing yet, if the batt has 12+ volts, the lights & stuff should work. Did you check the main fuse & the connections at the battery & main ground? If all electric quit suddenly, sounds like fuse. Don't just look at fuse, check the brass fuse holders, with meter to see 12v is getting into & past main fuse.

 

[Guest]

A Clymers manual for your bike, about $25, will be very useful, in addition to the help that you will get here. It can be ordered from almost any bookstore, either brick or on-line.

 

[Guest]

First get some dielectric grease. Take off that air filter box over the battery. Follow the negative battery cable to the crankcase and remove it. Hit the end with some fine grade sandpaper and the surface of the crancase where the cable connects. Apply the dielectric grease and reinstall. Follow the positive cable to the starter solonoid and do the same. (clean and grease) Then other pole of the solenoid and the starter pole. There is a small wire off the positive battery cable. Grease that and make sure the bullet connection is tight. Under the left frame cover (where the solenoid was) there is a fuse block and a R/R. Take out all the fuses and replace them. Clean the connections where the fuses contact. On the R/R (the square thingy with heat fins) there is a wire that is grounded to the right screw that mounts the R/R. Get some 14 guage wire and connect two eye connectors and connect the ground of the R/R to the negative post of the battery itself.
Do this first and then do the stator papers. If you have a multimeter just follow the directions. Don't let it scare you. It's pretty cut and dry.

Stator Papers

 

[Worldwidekid]

It turned out to be the fuse(s), so I replaced them all and it fired right up. Now I have to fix the leak in the cover, but I'm not sure what to expect when I get that cover off. I got an impact driver and a long enough socket to get the oil sump out, so I'm ready to go, but I don't want to take it off without knowing what I should expect. It's the left side cover that's leaking oil.

EDIT

I just took it out for a quick spin and it died on me. It wouldn't start up and is doing the same thing it did the last time the battery died. I'm guessing it's a charging problem.

 

[Steve]

If by "left side cover" you mean the one right behind the rag, here is a bit of advice/caution about removing it.
(Note that you will have to remove the crash guard first.)

1) If you do the work with the bike on the centerstand, have an oil drain pan handy, as you will lose a bit when you take the cover off. If you put the bike in gear (so it won't roll) and lean it against something like the garage door, you will lose hardly any oil at all.

2) Make a drawing on a piece of cardboard that somewhat resembles the outline of that cover. Punch a hole where each bolt is on the cover. As you remove the bolts, put them in the cardboard in the appropriate location. Some bolts are longer than others, this helps keep them in order. I use this method for any cover I remove from the engine.

3) When you get all the bolts out, the cover will still be hard to remove. That is because the 'alternator' is behind the cover. There is a series of windings attached to the cover that will come off with it, but there are rotating magnets attached to the crank that are doing their best to keep the iron cores of the windings real close to them. It takes a rather substantial pull to overcome the magnets, followed by a sudden release, so make sure you have some place to roll backward. :shock:

4) Examine your stator for signs of thermal stress. If you have what appears to be burnt windings, they just might be. New stators are about $130, rewoud stators are about $70. Might not hurt to do a quick check through The Stator Papers to check the condition of your charging system before taking the stator cover off.

5) Clean all gasket surfaces. Replace the stator, if necessary, then install your new gasket and put everything back together.

6) Verify that the bike is charging correctly and not leaking oil, then go for a victory ride. \\/


.

 

[rphillips]

Sounds like something (a short) is blowing a fuse, could be in the charging system, but not necessarily. A short in a hunderd other places may also blow them. First be sure the correct amp fuses are in the correct locations, any amp will fit, but won't work right.

 

[BassCliff]

Hey howdy hey!

Hey howdy hey!

Mr. Worldwidekid,

Sorry I'm late into your thread. I've been busy this weekend. So if you'll allow me...

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing has been improved because you gave us pictures! :grin:

In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the garage section via the GSR Hompage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with what's under your left side cover (see the Stator Replacement guide) and other routine maintenance tasks. Note that mine is an 850G, 8 valve motor and yours is a 16 valve but many tasks are similar for all GS bikes. Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr.

If you're blowing fuses (of the proper rating) then perhaps your regulator/rectifier has gone out. The Stator Papers will help you troubleshoot. Also check your entire wiring harness, from headlight bucket to tail light, to clean connections and check for shorts. A repair manual can be one of your best friends. Search the forum for links to downloadable manuals. If you can't find what your looking for, just ask. Clymer, Haynes, and Suzuki Shop Manuals are available in used form on ebay as well as new from retailers.

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

 

[Worldwidekid]

Just wanted to doublecheck a few things.

When I replaced the fuses, I took a sharpie and wrote numbers on the fuses before I removed them so that I'd know what ampere went where, and after I replaced the fuses, all seemed well, but before I replaced them I couldn't get any power in the bike at all.

When I took it for a test ride, I was turning a corner and the bike just died, but I still had power. I tried starting it but it would not fire up, it would only 'whir-whir-whir-whir-whir'. Then after a couple minutes of waiting, I'd try it again, and it seemed like slowly the battery began to die, as the 'whir' sounds got longer and more labored sounding until it would only click. I just replaced the battery, so that can't be it unless the bike is just draining power from somewhere.

I'm considering just taking it to a bike shop and explaining what's been happening as I kind of need the bike to run (I don't have a car :shock, but I don't have a lot of cash to put into it at the moment. I'd really love to be able to work on it and fix it myself, but I'm afraid that something as involved as replacing the R/R or doing stator work would be a perfect opportunity for me to do some irreparable damage.

I also noticed that when I shifted up into second gear or got to a certain MPH that it made a really unhappy sound from the front end, but it would stop when I slowed to 5mph or so. I was advised to check my tach cable but I couldn't see any reason why it'd be making that noise.

I'm sorry that my posts tend to read like books, but when I'm dealing with something I don't know much about, I like to be as thorough as possible.:?

 

[jbs80106]

Welcome!

Welcome!

You're in the right place to get answers to your problems.

You can try a shop, but if they're like they are here in Colorado they'll say they don't work on 25 year old bikes.

On your last post, cranking the starter will drain even a fresh battery pretty quick. If it just died on you I would guess that its probably a fuel problem, especially if you couldn't get it to restart after it died, despite having power.

As an alternate thing to try, you can push start (or bump start) your bike, put it 2nd gear, get it rolling, pop the clutch and then re-engage quickly.

Also, sometimes these bikes need a bit of choke to get started, but don't twist the throttle.

The guru's will probably tell you to trace the fuel, from the tank thru the petcock and into the carbs. Could be you're either getting not enough fuel, or too much. If the engine is full of gas/oil it can kill the engine too.

Open up your oil cap and sniff...if it smells like gas then you may have filled the motor up with leaking gas into the oil resivoir.

It can be 'fun' to work on these bikes. They're pretty easy even for me who has no mechanical experience. I won't lie, it can be very frustrating too when you have a problem you can't figure out.

We've all probably replaced our stators and regulators/rectifiers. I've done it and have to do it again this winter.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[jbs80106]

bad sound outta the front end...

bad sound outta the front end...

unscrew both the tach cable and speedo cables from the back of their respective instruments and spray some lub down into the cables. They get dry and the Clymer's manual will say to lub them each spring as part of the getting ready to ride season.

 

[Worldwidekid]

Thanks a ton for all your info. When I first noticed the leak from the stator cover, I did notice that it was an oil/gas mixture. I initially thought I had two separate leaks, but after plugging what I knew was the oil leak with the shirt, I noticed that the gas leak stopped as well. So... gas must be leaking from the same spot. I was afraid of that, because it seems to me like it'd be a pretty severe problem, but I honestly don't know.

 

[BassCliff]

Oil and gas should not mix!

Oil and gas should not mix!

Mr. Worldwidekid,

If you've got gas in your oil, DO NOT ride your motorcycle until the carburetors have been repaired and the oil has been changed. If you're lucky, it's not a carburetor issue and you just need to replace your petcock. Sometimes these vacuum-operated petcocks wear out. I would recommend getting a new one so that you don't have to worry about it for another 20 years. The petcock rebuild kits have dubious success.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[rphillips]

I think, to get gas in the oil, both the petcock & the carbs are faulty. If the petcock is faulty, the needle & seats, if working properly, will stop the fuel flow. If the needle & seats are leaking, a good working petcock will stop the fuel flow.

 

[spyug]

You are getting a lot of god advice but i think you may be getting confused with all the help. I also think you have more than one problem stopping the bike from running and you need to sort these before anthing else.

I'm thinking you have:
1) a charging issue.
2) a fuel circuit issue.

With these older bikes if they sit for any length of time they will develope issues with corrosion and or gas spoiling. Corrosion will affect the electrical circuitry and bad gas will plug petcocks , lines and carb passages and jets. This is simplistic but usually goes to the heart of the non running problem.

Before you delve into these things take BCliff's advice and drain your oil. If the bike sat it is very likely gas has gotten by the carbs into the cylinders and down into the sump. If you put your nose to the oil filler and smell gas..you've got contaminated oil......not good for lubrication.

I'll be surprised if your charging system is working but don't despair it could be an easy fix. As mentioned, before you do anything clean all the connections you can see especially the main positive and negative terminals at the battery. In addition, and this is really important, make that extra negative lead from the regulator/ rectifier to the negative poat of the battery. Mine was not charging and that simple thing was the fix.
The first test of the charging system requires the bike to run so you should address the fuel issue. Be aware that a majority of electrical issues are result of bad grounds so clean all ground contacts and connectors very thoroughlyl.

Before anything else, pull and clean the carbs as per the carb cleaning papers. If stale gas has been in the system (and gas gets stale within weeks) it breaks down and goes to a gel like state which can and does plug jets and passages. Couple this with minute rust from the tank and undoubtedly the carbs are plugged to some degree.

Once you have clean carbs and if you have any rust in your tank get an inline filter and fresh hose and run it from tank to carbs. The tank may need cleaning too but that can come later.

Get a gallon or so of fresh gas and a set of fresh plugs. Fully charge your battery on a trickle charger to at least 12.6 volts or better.

When you get the bike running again, take your multimeter and check voltage agross the battery posts. At revs of 2000 to 2500 you should be seeing 14+volts ( and may even go up into 15v) for a healthy charging system. If not ,you are into the stator papers and if you go step by step you learn what part is not working correctly. Likely it will be the regulator/rectifier before the stator so don't panic as that is an easy replacement.

Once the bike is running and charging then look to cleaning up the tank if rusty then tackle that leak. After that it's ride baby ride!

You can do all this so don't even think of taking it to the robber wrenches (their not all bad but the money is better in your jeans\\/).

Good luck and keep us in the loop.

Cheers,
Spyug.