new tire seems out of round

[tirebiter]

I read posts whereas seating a new tire can be problematic.

I bought some new V rated Michelins thinking the extra money and higher speed rating would provide a better chance of a good tire. Front and rear tires came from two different locations at different times, even though I bought from one source. Tire DOT dates is last Fall on one tire, last Summer on the other one. Almost 6 months apart.

After putting the front tire on it hops. Seems to go away above 40 MPH. Looks thinner/pinched in a little at one spot on one side only. When I rotate the front wheel, the tire doesn't seem perfectly round, either.

I used vaseline petroleum jelly as a home-style lubricant. I know, probably not a good idea but still ... it's slippery enough that the tire bead should seat easily. At least that was my thinking. Before mounting the tire, I wire brushed the inside of the wheel and applied the Vaseline to the tire. Everything was 100% clean.

Removed the wheel, let out all the air, refilled but still the same. Tried again and hit it with a rubber mallet trying to get the thin spot to seat before the rest of the tire. No luck. Tired upping the air pressure to 45, still no good.

Questions : Is it likely that I got a defective tire ? Any other tips on getting the tire to seat ? Anybody think I should dismount the tire and clean off the Vaseline, use a real store-bought rubber lubricant ?

I'm not wanting to install the rear tire until I know the front is good.

Almost 12,000 miles riding on the old tires, front one questionable from day one, since I bought "Little Suzy" last August.

 

[Brendan W]

Have you got an inner tube? Could it be hanging up? Where is the pinch in relation to the valve?
Unlikely tyre is defective but always possible. I worked in tyre plant and one week we managed to put a guy's pay packet including coins in a tyre.
What size are the tyres ?

 

[tom203]

Let air out and try a ratchet clamp strap wrapped around circumference: put tension on strap, refill tire with air and see if tire seats better.Use decent quality strap ,please!

 

[Guest]

The tire should have guide ribs that are narrow ribs (little bumps) of rubber near the rim. Check to see that the distance from the guide rib to the rim is uniform. A variation in the distance points to where the bead is not mounted correctly.


I had similar problems with Avon RoadRiders mounted on a Suzuki T500 two stroke.
Took the bike shop mechanic several attempt before the tire was mounted correctly.


Seems like modern high performance tires are a bit of a pain to mount on some vintage rims.

 

[Nessism]

Try more air pressure. In my experience 45 psi isn't enough to seat the bead sometimes. I'm not sure what the max is but I think it should be safe to about 60 psi or so.

 

[cowboyup3371]

You didn't mention anything about balancing it. Are you sure the weights are in the right place and are the right amount? I would do what everyone else says first then go back and check out your balancing.

 

[tirebiter]

cowboyup3371,

I checked the balance and added a 1/4 ounce of weight opposite to what appeared to be the heavy side, before the test ride.

Thanks also to everyone else,

I just happened to have a ratchet strap and gave that a try. No good.

Then I looked really closely and saw the "bead marker" line I had read about in this forum. It immediately became obvious that the bead was not seated properly. I spooned in on the tire where the bead marker was not showing. Applied some more Vaseline where the rubber was not sliding on the rim. Refilled with air and Yay !

Overfilled with air somewhat, actually. Watched as the sidewall oozed out from hiding behind the deep lip of the aluminum wheel. No "pop" sound but could see the bead marker line as clear as day, while it slowly appeared and lined right up perfectly, with the edge of the wheel. Immediately released the excess air pressure and took a test drive.

brrrmmm brrrmmm

Just came back from the test drive. It's wonderful. Everything is as it should be. Can't wait to get the rear tire on.

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[tirebiter]

OK, I got the rear tire on the other day and ran a couple of tankfuls through Little Suzy. Highway speeds are wonderful now. No concern about vibration ... all but gone. One thing new tires really gave me is a LOT more confidence especially in long corners like on and off ramps to the highway.

Now that the ride is the same at all speeds, I am thinking it's time to maybe do something about checking the front fork oil. I'm carrying a toolbox in a rear luggage rack mounted pod. The tool box weighs maybe 35 pounds. Enough that I can really feel the difference when it's not with me.

Rear shock spring perches have always been set to the highest ride setting. I have not looked at what the shock damping screw is set to but I imagine it only controls rebound. I have bottomed the rear suspension more than once when carrying the toolbox. I weight about 230 lbs. Anybody have a suggestion for stiffer springs ? I'm not looking for sportiness. I just don't think it's good to bottom the suspension when riding.

I have only bottomed the front suspension when encountering bad holes. Except for the noticeable dive when coming to a full stop, it seems ok. There is maybe a little bit of constant fast undulation. Small amounts of fork travel but quick. It was masked by the tires being so out of balance before I put new tires on. I'm thinking topping up the forks might be all I need to do but figured I'd ask here, first.

I searched many threads but never saw that is it entirely possible to drain and refill the forks without removing them. Anyone care to answer if it is possible - or not ?

Over 12,000 miles since I bought her, last August. Except for the worn out battery that failed to start the engine one cold morning, she has been 100% reliable. Amazing even !

 

[Guest]

it's possible, but a fork rebuild with new replaceable bits and some new springs would probably be best. I think most would recommend new shocks in back, too, if they are still the originals.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Try more air pressure. In my experience 45 psi isn't enough to seat the bead sometimes. I'm not sure what the max is but I think it should be safe to about 60 psi or so.

What he said!
Mine was hanging up and I could see it, so I added more soap, upped the pressure, and kept my fingers clear. It oozed some and snapped into place.
I checked the pressure and I only had it up to the low 50s.

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

There is also the old reliable trick of setting the assembly out in direct sunshine and waiting till the bead pops.

 

[bwringer]

For the record, and for anyone watching, PLEASE don't use vaseline to mount tires. It's a Bad Idea on many levels.

A bottle of RuGlyde is less than $15 at any Napa auto parts and won't corrode your rims, make your tires slick, or damage the rubber. It's the most easily and widely available, but there are other excellent tire mounting lubricants out there as well.


<rant>

Please don't substitute dish soap, hand soap, bath soap, laundry soap, shampoo, Windex, WD-40, brake cleaner, vaseline, KY Jelly, saliva, bear grease, goose grease, bacon grease, Bag Balm, horse liniment, aloe jelly, Armor All, tallow, hand cleaner, squirrel brains, olive oil, Wesson Oil, coconut oil, oil or grease of any kind, Pam cooking spray, or any of the other positively insane substitutes that pop up whenever tires are discussed.

I've never figured out why there is such a deeply seated, widespread NEED for motorcyclists to apply inappropriate substances to their tires. Guys who spend $20 per liter on rare Italian unguents for the insides of their engines will happily walk into the kitchen or bathroom and slather the first slippery stuff they find onto their tires.

</rant>




As to your last question, yes it's possible to partially drain the forks and refill without removing, but to do it right you will need to disassemble the forks. It isn't all that hard and doesn't take that long. Take them apart, clean everything up, then install Sonic Springs ( http://sonicsprings.com ) and fresh 10W fork oil set to the correct level (the volume of oil is irrelevant -- set the level as outlined in the manual).

Out back, save up a few bucks and install a set of shocks -- the originals are pretty much garbage. The sub-$100 shocks you find on fleaBay are no good; you'll need about $200 to get a set of Hagon or Progressive shocks.

Sort out the suspension and you'll be amazed.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

There is also the old reliable trick of setting the assembly out in direct sunshine and waiting till the bead pops.

Does a case of cold beer, or a fishing pole help?

 

[posplayr]

Try more air pressure. In my experience 45 psi isn't enough to seat the bead sometimes. I'm not sure what the max is but I think it should be safe to about 60 psi or so.

I use 60 lbs about a limit to make sure tires are seated.

 

[tirebiter]

Got the front and rear to POP with about 60 PSI. All set. Thanks folks.

 

[Steve]

I agree with Brian (bwringer) regarding your question about changing the fork oil without removing the forks. The question remains, though, "why?" You may think that your seals are in good shape because there is no leakage. Consider this: they can't leak if there is no oil in there. Why might there be no oil? Because the seals are bad and all the oil has leaked out.

As he mentioned, the correct way is to remove the forks. This will allow you do do a few things:
1. Inspect the bushings
2. Replace the seals
3. Burnish any high spots in the tubes caused by rocks
4. Change the springs (ok, you can do the springs with the forks on the bike)
5. Hold the tube vertical, as required in the manual, to set the oil level.

It only takes a couple minutes to remove the front wheel and fender, then it's just a matter of three more bolts on the clamps, the tubes will slide right out. If you do just one at a time, you stand less chance of the headlight assembly falling out of place.

Based on your stated 'gravitational attraction', I would suggest Sonic Springs in the 1.1 rate, along with 10w fork oil. That is what I have on my 850, which is also wearing a frame-mounted fairing. At the back, Hagon shocks would be good (about $200). Talk to Dave Quinn (do a Google search for Dave Quinn motorcycle shocks), he will set you up with the damping and spring rates that should work for you. We have Hagons on my wife's bike, they are a BIG improvement over what was on there. I have an old set of KONIs on my bike. They will need some fine-tuning, but are already almost as good as the front. :encouragement:

.