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No crank: intermittent, can't find a fault.

  • Thread starter Thread starter ThrottleBack
  • Start date Start date
T

ThrottleBack

Guest
80% of the time I hit start and she fires right up. But randomly I will hit start and get nothing. This time I opened the kill/start cluster to fix the throttle cable and upon reassembly the start button gets me nothing. Heres what I have and know:

- New solenoid
- 11.8-12v at solenoid from start button
- Kill switch effectively kills the power from start button at solenoid, so it's working
- 12v at solenoid from battery
- New ground link wire from frame to battery

Using a screw driver across the posts cranks strong BUT DOES NOT START. My bike ALWAYS starts within a second or two. My only theory is that the ground wire from the "panel" to the battery maybe faulty, and I'm clueless how to test it or if I'm even on the right track. 30 year old wiring, got to love it.
 
So did I, it just randomly came back after a lot of other use.
 
Positive i'm getting proper voltage from starter switch and function from kill. I even took it back apart and checked. Only change was originally i forgot to put the gold plate back in that covers start switch. I put that back in but again, voltage is right.
 
What's got me thinking ground is the when this occurs it doesn't start when turned over. When the problem vanishes she starts. The bike hasn't even moved in a week.
 
I pulled the rack and seat off and looking at it I don't see any obvious breaks. I'm going to hit google and see about how to use my meter to test ground. I HAVE to figure this out because until i do I will never take the bike out.
 
I run a ground from R/R to battery -, R/R case to frame and electrical panel, then from panel to battery -, frame to battery and motor to battery -.

I also go through every connector on the bike with with contact cleaner and dielectric grease.
Might seem like overkill, but the hour a year it takes me to do it less time and effort than chasing shorts and bad grounds throughout my very short and very important riding season.
 
Steel Toed Tank said:
I run a ground from R/R to battery -, R/R case to frame and electrical panel, then from panel to battery -, frame to battery and motor to battery -.

I also go through every connector on the bike with with contact cleaner and dielectric grease.
Might seem like overkill, but the hour a year it takes me to do it less time and effort than chasing shorts and bad grounds throughout my very short and very important riding season.
Click to expand...

Maybe I will step back for today and just take the time this weekend to run the grounds like you do. Electrical idiot question: what did you mean by "motor to battery"? (- not needed, that part i know :P).

I need to head over to bass's site and become familliar with the r/r, i need to understand where it is, what it is, and why I care becauxse it seems that pops up a lot.
 
ThrottleBack said:
I pulled the rack and seat off and looking at it I don't see any obvious breaks. I'm going to hit google and see about how to use my meter to test ground. I HAVE to figure this out because until i do I will never take the bike out.
Click to expand...


+ lead on battery +, - lead on the ground you want to test.
Try to pick the furthest point from the battery.

Your reading should be within a .1V or .2V of the reading you get from putting your leads directly on the battery terminals.

Electronics Tutorial #1 - Electricity - Voltage, Current, Power, AC and DC
 
ThrottleBack said:
Maybe I will step back for today and just take the time this weekend to run the grounds like you do. Electrical idiot question: what did you mean by "motor to battery"? (- not needed, that part i know :P).

I need to head over to bass's site and become familliar with the r/r, i need to understand where it is, what it is, and why I care becauxse it seems that pops up a lot.
Click to expand...

wrong....... motor to battery- = motor to battery NEEDED. "-" = ground wire
 
It means I have a ground wire going directly from the engine block to the battery.

Over the years I have seen numerous strange issues on bikes, cars and transport trucks solved by simply fixing, cleaning, or adding a ground.

Hold on, I'll get a couple pictures.
 
This green wire runs direct to the battery -.
IMG_0235_zps911cf305.jpg


This next picture, the ground wire is white.
It starts at the bolt for the R/R, and attaches behind the fuse block to one of the solenoid mounting bolts.
From there it continues on to the battery -.

IMG_0236_zps22420d6c.jpg


It all might be more than needed, but I ride in a lot of areas with no cell service, and often more than 10 miles to the closest house or person.


Somewhere on here there is a 'ten things to do to have a healthy, reliable and safe GS' list. I think it comes in BassCliffs' welcome package.
Completing that list when I first got my bike has given me 15,000 kms of worry free good times.

9 out of ten times when a newer GS owner gets on here asking for help, it's something that would have been addressed IF they had gone through the list.
Besides making your GS safe and reliable, going through the list with your bike teaches you the finer points on how it works, what to watch out for & keep an eye on, AND will help immensly when something goes wrong far from home.


EDIT: And would you just look at that patina!
You can't fake a finish like that.
Painting and polishing takes what? A day or two MAX.
The finish in that first picture took 3 DECADES!
 
Last edited:
Agemax said:
wrong....... motor to battery- = motor to battery NEEDED. "-" = ground wire
Click to expand...

do what now? I think you misunderstood me. I was saying you guys don't need to specify battery "-" I know grounds run to the negative post. I dunno your post just confused me, easy enough to do.

Steel Toed Tank said:
It means I have a ground wire going directly from the engine block to the battery.

Over the years I have seen numerous strange issues on bikes, cars and transport trucks solved by simply fixing, cleaning, or adding a ground.

Hold on, I'll get a couple pictures.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pics. I had a feeling you meant exactly what it is, engine block to battery, I was just making sure. Is that just to help ensure the battery always has a ground? I have never seen that done before.

Reading the r/r write up explained a lot, i'm also going to replace all the butt connectors to spade. I have a broken hand it's not like I don't have time to do this right.
 
you can never have to many grounds, as long as they all end up in contact with the battery - at the end.....

i have many ground wires, same as STT, motor to frame, R/R and starter solenoid to frame, all other grounds go direct to frame as well. my battery - is grounded straight to frame also, not to the motor
 
Agemax said:
you can never have to many grounds, as long as they all end up in contact with the battery - at the end.....

i have many ground wires, same as STT, motor to frame, R/R and starter solenoid to frame, all other grounds go direct to frame as well. my battery - is grounded straight to frame also, not to the motor
Click to expand...


Yeah if I didn't specify, my battery is grounded to frame. That's the BIG one.
The engine is grounded to the frame through all of it's mounts.

My engine to battery wire is just to be extra sure.

And if you look at my left solenoid mounting bolt, you can see the solenoid to frame ground.
 
Last edited:
Steel Toed Tank said:
Yeah if I didn't specify, my battery is grounded to frame. That's the BIG one.
The engine is grounded to the frame through all of it's mounts.

My engine to battery wire is just to be extra sure.

And if you look at my left solenoid mounting bolt, you can see the solenoid to frame ground.
Click to expand...

I love this place. Here's hoping all this solves the issue and prevents others.
 
ThrottleBack said:
80% of the time I hit start and she fires right up. But randomly I will hit start and get nothing. This time I opened the kill/start cluster to fix the throttle cable and upon reassembly the start button gets me nothing. Heres what I have and know:
Click to expand...
I'm not familiar with the TX's, but do they have a clutch switch? If it does, you may want to jump it to reduce your variables.

I had the same problem and it turned out to be a tiny bit of corrosion on the starter button. Sounds like you've already licked that one, though.

Reading over your description it really sounds like kill switch to me. I know, it tested well, but the problem is intermittent isn't it? If you only have symptoms 20% of the time a random test of a component will only fail 20% of the time. An open kill switch will prevent the starter from cranking and prevent it from firing. A bad starter switch will only prevent it from turning over so your jumped solenoid test should have worked.

When you turn the key the idiot lights come on so you know that the ignition circuit is working. The kill switch isn't like that. When you turn it on nothing obvious happens. I happen to have a coil relay mod on mine so I hear an audible relay click when I hit the switch so I know that the circuit is closed. Perhaps you should do something similar by temporarily adding a led to that circuit (at the coil connection, perhaps) so when it's closed, you have a light to check.

Now if you verified that the kill switch circuit was closed when you jumped the contacts on the solenoid, I got nothing.

Rob
 
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