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No front fender/brace dangerous?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Scratcher09
  • Start date Start date
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Scratcher09

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I have deleted front fenders without using a brace before. I like to hit the twisties aggressively on occasion, but I don't do track days and I'm not knee scrapin'. It would seem obvious that a brace definitely improves handling in extreme conditions. But for everyday riding, is a brace necessary? I've seen people say that if you delete your fender then a brace is a must. I find that hard to believe because the front fender is not rigid enough to "brace" the forks. The axle seems like it would "brace" the forks a lot more than the fender. Some bikes have a bracket under the front fender to stiffen the fender, but my GS does not and it just seems too flimsy to have any stiffening affect on the forks. I'm hoping someone who knows a lot more about suspension systems can shed some light on the subject.
 
As a general rule, I think you probably summarized everything already.
 
Whoever said front fenders aren't cool is not too bright in my opinion. Only people who don't know better take the front fender off without putting back on a brace. Your talking yourself into not needing one but it's a waste of time, you DO need a fender or a brace, period
 
I've never seen a GS without either the built in bracket (like my 650GD), or a separate brace that mounts under the fender.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that you absolutely NEED a fender or brace, but at least here, fenders are mandatory kit. Personally, I wouldn't ride without one.

If you think about the axle, you can see that it can't offer any resistance to twisting of the forks. Does the brace do anything more? Probably not a whole lot, but enough that I would feel a little more confident in 90mph sweepers.

As you say, it's all in how/where you ride.
 
OK.

Do you need a brace. I don't know that you NEED one.

But Neither do you.

Are you an engineer? Have you studied this?

You like casinos? Go ahead and gamble. I won't care.
 
nejeff said:
Whoever said front fenders aren't cool is not too bright in my opinion. Only people who don't know better take the front fender off without putting back on a brace. Your talking yourself into not needing one but it's a waste of time, you DO need a fender or a brace, period
Click to expand...

I am asking for an explanation as to WHY a brace is necessary. Understanding how a brace works will help me make an informed decision. I do all my own work on my bikes (and cars) so any opportunity to learn more is welcomed.
 
Sorry, I don't have any engineering info for you but these old bikes didn't have good suspension when they came out of the factory so anything you can do to improve that situation would be a plus for you, better handling equals better safety. It sounds like you like to have some fun at times so I would go for the fork brace if I were you. That and also put in new fork oil or better yet new fork springs and then look at your rear shocks.
 
Saying you don't need a fender or brace is like saying you don't need to bleed your brakes. Sure, under laid-back riding conditions you can come to a leisurely stop just fine with a spongy brake lever. But eventually the time will come that you make a mistake (we all do, we're human) and that extra bit of performance and feedback might save your bike or your life.

You're right that a fender doesn't provide as much stiffness as a brace. But it still provides some.

My advice would be, if you're going go deleting the front fender because you think it looks cooler without (and don't mind rocks, dirt, water all over your bike and person) then at least buy a fork brace. It will look that much cooler and it's a legitimate performance upgrade over just taking important bits off the bike and throwing them on the scrap heap.
 
Well you can do an experiment yourself , walk up in front of your bike and lock the front wheel between your knees and grab the handle bars and twist them from side to side, then put your fender back on and do it again. It will explain itself on if you need a brace or not. Just remember the force that you apply is nothing to the forces that your suspension goes through when you are pushing it in the twisties. I believe you will find it self explanatory.
 
hjisk, that's a good way to visualise.
You can cobble together a kind of trellis and apply some of the forces involved to it.You can see that
the length of the "trellis" will affect how easily it twists and by inference, how your front wheel may wobble or mis-align in a bad scenario. (The "L" models appear to have longer forks. Even my 82 400T has longer forks than the '81 T.)
Twisting isn't the only concern- keeping both front and rear axles LEVEL is another...ie you don't want them canted differently as you look at them head-on from the front of the bike..

: and, while the fender stiffener is maybe really more to keep the fender itself stiff (because these don't have the extra strut that old bikes often had at the back of the front fender ) they act somewhat as a "fork brace"...maybe not as well as something really rigid designed for the purpose.. They also help to put the front wheel back on by stopping the bottoms of the forks from turning so the Brake Caliper is aligned while you slide the wheel and disk in .
 
Most of us seem to be grasping the wrong end of the stick here.

Does removing the fender reduce performance? Absolutely. The fork doesn't work quite as well without something there to help keep things aligned. However, a stock fender or fender brace doesn't do a whole lot. It helps, but it doesn't provide as much bracing as a good fork brace.

Is it dangerous? Yes, but not because of the slightly reduced performance of the fork. It's dangerous because of all the crap from the road that gets flung into your face shield (I'm going to assume you are wearing a real full-face helmet and not some useless hipster open-face) and all over your bike. Even on clear, clean roads (maybe you only ride in Disneyland or something) you'll get a constant stream of particles flung in your face.

Obscured vision and flying objects can be extremely dangerous. A bit of added fork twist is really no big deal in comparison.

Motorcycling requires clear-headed risk management. Removing the fender increases your risk, but the decision as to whether achieving a certain look is worth this risk is entirely up to you -- it's your bike and your ride.

You can mitigate, but not eliminate, this particular risk by wearing a full-face helmet with the visor closed, and by choosing not to ride this bike in bad weather or bad roads.
 
bwringer said:
Most of us seem to be grasping the wrong end of the stick here.

Does removing the fender reduce performance? Absolutely. The fork doesn't work quite as well without something there to help keep things aligned. However, a stock fender or fender brace doesn't do a whole lot. It helps, but it doesn't provide as much bracing as a good fork brace.

Is it dangerous? Yes, but not because of the slightly reduced performance of the fork. It's dangerous because of all the crap from the road that gets flung into your face shield (I'm going to assume you are wearing a real full-face helmet and not some useless hipster open-face) and all over your bike. Even on clear, clean roads (maybe you only ride in Disneyland or something) you'll get a constant stream of particles flung in your face.

Obscured vision and flying objects can be extremely dangerous. A bit of added fork twist is really no big deal in comparison.

Motorcycling requires clear-headed risk management. Removing the fender increases your risk, but the decision as to whether achieving a certain look is worth this risk is entirely up to you -- it's your bike and your ride.

You can mitigate, but not eliminate, this particular risk by wearing a full-face helmet with the visor closed, and by choosing not to ride this bike in bad weather or bad roads.
Click to expand...

Well stated.
 
I appreciate all the input. I knew I would be looked down upon by some for asking the question, but it is all in the pursuit of knowledge. I do now understand more of how the fork's operation is affected by fender/brace. Also, I have a confession to make. When I said that my GS fender does not have a brace under the front fender I was wrong. I was looking at a fender off another bike (I have several projects). And I did do the test hjfisk suggested and I can see and feel the flex of the forks. And I understand the trellis affect.

I feel better understanding the geometry and mechanics behind it. A fork brace would be ideal (modern front end swap is not an option on my budget). And the loss of the front fender does negatively affect performance (and there is the road debris issue to consider). I will use the front fender. I may trim it a bit but now I see the importance of having it. I will also consider upgrading my front and rear springs when I can afford it. And I will look for a solution for the other bikes that I have without front fenders.
 
Scratcher09 said:
I appreciate all the input. I knew I would be looked down upon by some for asking the question, but it is all in the pursuit of knowledge. I do now understand more of how the fork's operation is affected by fender/brace. Also, I have a confession to make. When I said that my GS fender does not have a brace under the front fender I was wrong. I was looking at a fender off another bike (I have several projects). And I did do the test hjfisk suggested and I can see and feel the flex of the forks. And I understand the trellis affect.

I feel better understanding the geometry and mechanics behind it. A fork brace would be ideal (modern front end swap is not an option on my budget). And the loss of the front fender does negatively affect performance (and there is the road debris issue to consider). I will use the front fender. I may trim it a bit but now I see the importance of having it. I will also consider upgrading my front and rear springs when I can afford it. And I will look for a solution for the other bikes that I have without front fenders.
Click to expand...

I'm very pleased to see that you actually were able to assimilate the various inputs and come to the correct decision. That is seemingly rare. The world is a complex place and there is seldom an obvious black and white answer. However, in my experience, if you can figure out what is important and focus on that you will be lead to a good decision and generally the best decision. This is a basic skill in problem solving.
 
From my own experience, I found the standard fender (even though it has a brace built in) definitely needed and rewarded the add-on aftermarket brace at the top of the sliders.
I'll be buying in an 1100EZ fender, which has a substantial brace built into it and augmenting that with a Tele-fix brace above it, to give a belt and braces effect. Too much of a good thing, in this case, is a better thing.
 
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