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No start GS650

  • Thread starter Thread starter eldoradoman
  • Start date Start date
E

eldoradoman

Guest
So I bought this bike as is having an 'electrical problem'.....lol. It ran pretty good at first but I usually had to boost it unless it was running for a while and seemed to charge the battery a little. Then it started blowing bulbs when revving and eventually wouldn't start anymore so I stupidly started throwing some money at it and got an aftermarket rectifier and stator.

After installing the stator and rectifier is still would not start and something 'popped' when I connected my little booster pack to the battery wires and now the starter button won't even work. Jumping the solenoid will get it to turn over. Got a new starter relay/solenoid but it didn't fix this issue.

It has good compression, new plugs, and seems to have spark, so maybe it's the timing?
 
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Did you go though the Stator Papers? http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorfacts.htm

Here is the update...http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff/images/electrical_odd-n-ends.html#A04

It's critical to fix the wiring harness weaknesses when working on the charging system. In particular, the convoluted stator wiring must be fixed and the R/R ground improved also. There are various threads detailing this mod so you might want to read around in the archives for a while.

As for the bike not turning over now, I have no idea. You might have damaged something monkeying around with that booster battery business.

Good luck
 
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Unlikely to be any timing problem- electrics are Big weaknesses on these critters. Since you knew how to "jump the solenoid", you should be able to sort this out. If you just used a booster battery (and not a reving car), I doubt any damage,Have you check fuses? What brand stator and R/R did you get?

Head to Basscliff's for a readable wiring diagram like this....

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/gs650wiring.html
 
Invest in a digital multimeter/voltmeter so you are not guessing. they can be had at harbor freight for less than 10 bucks or FREE this month with a 10 dollar purchase. For the naysayers, I KNOW they are not the best but they do work. I buy TWO of them, cause I'm pretty careless with them and usually i loose 'em or break them before they break themselves...
anyway..
I would have checked what the battery voltage WAS when cranking to determine state of battery charge. If it was less than 9 or 10 volts, then I'd have charged the battery PROPERLY with a amp charger.
If the resulting cranking voltage wa still less than 9 or 10 volts I would have said the battery was bad.
OK I know that a badly bound up starter possibly could draw down a perfectly good battery..
sooo.. At that point I'd have tried another power source like a car battery just to see.
I suspect your original problem was a bad battery, and your lights blew because it was not accepting the charge from the rect/reg.
It was like you had your bike running ,without a battery. that blows lights over time at high revs.

as far as the new rect/reg.. you need to get it running and see what it is charging..again you NEED a digital voltmeter.
I also suspect one of your fuses or main fuse is blown now for whatever reason.
Guessing causes cascading bad results..


If your battery is toast, it will drag down to low volts when trying to start. When running, the bike maybe trying to charge it and the charge might not go into the battery but instead blow bulbs. I've seen it happen many time on bike with bad batteries.
either way it is easy to VERIFY with a voltmeter.
 
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Me Too

Me Too

I have 2 mutimeters from Harbor Freight. Larry was a GOOD stooge.:D
 
Ugh,harbor freaight again.Even jumpr packs have been known to blow a r/r,recent thread here.A bike battery puts out about 200 amps for these,a jumper pack or running car huge amps.not good for our bikes.I don't think anyway.
 
I do have a multimeter. The stator and RR are both from 'Caltric' on eBay, so made in China I'm guessing. I did a couple tests on the stator and RR according to the stator papers fault finding chart but get stuck early on the tests.

Not getting any readings with ground testing the RR (even the original one) despite cleaning the ground cable good and the mating surface where it bolts to the frame.

and the RR also is consistent for output around 1.5V and then 0.5V respectively so it passes the first two tests. But then I can't get any reading from the negative wire to ground or the RR case even. Same for the original RR, no reading testing for ground....does that mean both RR's are fried?

My original and new aftermarket stator both pass the first test with consistent reading, but I get stuck testing on the 2nd test as nowhere can I get a good connection to the engine casing so I don't get any reading there...

I put 5 new fuses in too. Are there any other fuses? Also, when the bike was running before I had charged the battery with a charger and it was able to start the bike fine for a few tries, then finally stopped cranking it over, hence why I was using a booster pack after that.

It's definitely getting fuel too, even if I spray carb cleaner in the airbox it will not do anything, just keep turning over...

Thanks for all your help everyone, I will read through all the stator papers and try testing for ground again as that is where I gave up before.
 
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No, you only have the fuses that are in the box under the seat.

Looking back on it, you said you could get the bike to crank by jumping the solenoid, but not by pressing the starter button. Those switches are known weak points as well, tend to get corroded/short/cause of resistance...
 
Remove tank, check for +12 volt on orange/white wire that feeds both ignition coils (with ignition and kill switch "on"- if you got nothing here, jumping the solenoid won't bring it to life.
 
It turns over no problem when i jump the solenoid, just not igniting the fuel.
 
It has spark, that's why in my original post I was thinking something fried or maybe the CDI. I'll go test the coils now and see if they are getting enough juice for a hot enough spark.
 
Okay, I got 12V on O/W wire for the right side coil, but only 10.3V for the left side coil. That should still be enough to fire up the bike though shouldn't it?
 
eldoradoman said:
Okay, I got 12V on O/W wire for the right side coil, but only 10.3V for the left side coil. That should still be enough to fire up the bike though shouldn't it?
Click to expand...
Yes, assuming it doesn't drop too much during cranking. Set petcock to prime spot, activate "choke" fully -do not apply any throttle- with ignition on, jump the solenoid.

If no luck, follow this link for ignition testing procedure

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff/images/electrical_odd-n-ends.html#A17
 
eldoradoman said:
Okay, I got 12V on O/W wire for the right side coil, but only 10.3V for the left side coil. That should still be enough to fire up the bike though shouldn't it?
Click to expand...
You are marginal on the left coil, but I'd expect it to at least cough a little. How do those numbers compare to the voltage across the battery, and what is the voltage across the battery with the engine cranking over? Without knowing this information, it's tough to diagnose the starting/running problems.

In the first post in this thread you said that it 'seems to have spark". How did you determine that? ColorTune? Grounding each plug against the head?
 
BigD_83 said:
You are marginal on the left coil, but I'd expect it to at least cough a little. How do those numbers compare to the voltage across the battery, and what is the voltage across the battery with the engine cranking over? Without knowing this information, it's tough to diagnose the starting/running problems.

In the first post in this thread you said that it 'seems to have spark". How did you determine that? ColorTune? Grounding each plug against the head?
Click to expand...

I checked for spark by grounding the plugs against the engine, all seem to be about the same, hard to tell if they're blue though as I'm color blind, lol.

I'm still using the booster pack when trying to start it so it's definitely 12V. I suppose I should put the battery back in though and test it too...
 
you have spark so the igniter and coils are working somewhat. That leaves timing and fuel.

Pull a plug, does it smell of gas? Is it in good condition? If no gas is smelt then see if the carbs have fuel by loosing one fuel bowl drain and see what comes out.

If no fuel, pull the carbs and clean them. There is a how to on the GSR homepage for this.

If you have fuel on the plug and they are in good shape make sure 2-3 are on one coil and 1-4 cylinders are on another. Reverse the pairs and see if that does it. during troubleshooting sometimes the pairs get reversed.

If there are bowl vent hoses still on the carbs going up where the tank is from the carb rack, take one and blow air into the hose for a few seconds. Sometimes this primes the choke circuit and sprays a little fuel to get it going. It worked for Tim Tom's 850 when it would not start.
 
duaneage said...
"If you have fuel on the plug and they are in good shape make sure 2-3 are on one coil and 1-4 cylinders are on another. Reverse the pairs and see if that does it. during troubleshooting sometimes the pairs get reversed"

Good point -easy to mix up. As you sit on bike left coil fires 1 and 4 (1 is under clutch hand) while right coil fires 2 and 3
 
tom203 said:
duaneage said...
"If you have fuel on the plug and they are in good shape make sure 2-3 are on one coil and 1-4 cylinders are on another. Reverse the pairs and see if that does it. during troubleshooting sometimes the pairs get reversed"

Good point -easy to mix up. As you sit on bike left coil fires 1 and 4 (1 is under clutch hand) while right coil fires 2 and 3
Click to expand...

yeah, I tried reversing the coil wires already, still get the same result. Turns over and over but no sputter or nothing. Putting a drop of fuel in each spark plug hole doesn't get it to sputter either.

I do get fuel on the plugs. I thought it might have been flooded at one time as they were always wet, so I cranked it over for a couple minutes at a time with wide open throttle to clear it just in case, then took all the plugs out overnight to let it evaporate (if it was flooded at all), but still get the same result.

The battery isn't very good it seems, drops to 8volts or so during cranking, and went from 12v fully charged down to 11 pretty quick after cranking just a few times. It sounds weak compared to using my little booster pack when starting.
 
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duaneage said:
you have spark so the igniter and coils are working somewhat. That leaves timing and fuel.

Pull a plug, does it smell of gas? Is it in good condition? If no gas is smelt then see if the carbs have fuel by loosing one fuel bowl drain and see what comes out.

If no fuel, pull the carbs and clean them. There is a how to on the GSR homepage for this.

If you have fuel on the plug and they are in good shape make sure 2-3 are on one coil and 1-4 cylinders are on another. Reverse the pairs and see if that does it. during troubleshooting sometimes the pairs get reversed.

If there are bowl vent hoses still on the carbs going up where the tank is from the carb rack, take one and blow air into the hose for a few seconds. Sometimes this primes the choke circuit and sprays a little fuel to get it going. It worked for Tim Tom's 850 when it would not start.
Click to expand...

I took the carbs apart and cleaned them already but it didn't change anything.
 
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