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Oh Sh*t - Now I Have To Split The Cases

  • Thread starter Thread starter Suzuki_Don
  • Start date Start date
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Suzuki_Don

Guest
I have swarf and metal shavings in the crankcase now. Also in around the big end journals. I am going to have to split the cases. I know this question has probably been answered before, but for the love of me I cannot find a simple succinct answer. What gasket sealer is best to use on the crankcase flanges when puting the cases back together? I am tossing up between Suzuki Bond #4 (if I can still get it) and Hylomar Universal Blue or Aerograde. Does anyone know if the Suzuki #4 is silicon based?

On another subject which is the best Loctite to use on the screws in and around the crankcase, e.g. screws holding selector mechanism, oil pump, etc. Screws that I don't want to go back to in the future. And please don't say Loctite Red or Blue, that doesn't mean anything to me. I need actual Loctite numbers please.

Cheers
Don
 
The loctite actually does come labeled as the color. Blue is semi permanent (you MIGHT need to take this apart in the future) and red is permanent (This is for keeps, like a weld, never meant to come apart again). It's like gasket stuff that comes a "utra grey", "black" etc... "Blue Loctite" really is the the part name.
 
doctorgonzo said:
The loctite actually does come labeled as the color. Blue is semi permanent (you MIGHT need to take this apart in the future) and red is permanent (This is for keeps, like a weld, never meant to come apart again). It's like gasket stuff that comes a "utra grey", "black" etc... "Blue Loctite" really is the the part name.
Click to expand...

OK. Thanks for that I will look for Blue Loctite then.
 
med strength=blue (normal usage)
permanent=red... locktite #262 (it comes apart, use it all the time, requires high turning force to remove)
stud and bearing mounting=green (requires heat to remove)

doctorgonzo is correct, ask for it by color.
 
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rustybronco said:
med strength=blue (normal usage)
permanent=red... locktite #262 (it comes apart, use it all the time, requires high turning force to remove)
stud and bearing mounting=green (requires heat to remove)

doctorgonzo is correct, ask for it by color.
Click to expand...

OK. Thanks Guys. What about the flange gasket material.
 
Generally, red loctite is too hard for aluminum threads -- it'll tear them up pretty badly next time you disassemble.

Use red Loctite on steel/steel that you don't want to ever move again without drastic measures (or aluminum that you are dead certain you won't EVER need to remove again), and use blue on any steel/aluminum and semi-permanent steel/steel.

There's also green (penetrating, medium strength, for use on assembled fasteners) and purple (low strength for small fasteners) Loctite, and about 3,000,000,000 other slightly different formulations, cleaners, etc.

You can find red, blue, and green anywhere, and they're pretty much all you need.
 
bwringer said:
Generally, red loctite is too hard for aluminum threads -- it'll tear them up pretty badly next time you disassemble.

Use red Loctite on steel/steel that you don't want to ever move again without drastic measures (or aluminum that you are dead certain you won't EVER need to remove again), and use blue on any steel/aluminum and semi-permanent steel/steel.

There's also green (penetrating, medium strength, for use on assembled fasteners) and purple (low strength for small fasteners) Loctite, and about 3,000,000,000 other slightly different formulations, cleaners, etc.

You can find red, blue, and green anywhere, and they're pretty much all you need.
Click to expand...

Hi. Thanks Brian. That 3Bond looks like the stuff that I am after. Could you give me a bit further of an explanation on the green loctite please? Like what type of fasteners and in what situations you would use it. I don't think I will use any of the red Loctite in the motor, I will stick to the blue on your suggestions. Thanks again Brian.
 
Go to your local Suzuki dealer & tell them you want a tube of Threebond 1207B. It is the BLACK stuff. It is the ONLY thing I use to assemble cases. Ray.
 
I have used Yamabond 4, it is a gray colored sealant that seals well even when left to dry slightly. The drying was unintentional, but getting the gear shift forks in correct position was harder than imagined. Have used on two 650 cases without incidence.
 
waterman said:
I have used Yamabond 4, it is a gray colored sealant that seals well even when left to dry slightly. The drying was unintentional, but getting the gear shift forks in correct position was harder than imagined. Have used on two 650 cases without incidence.
Click to expand...

Yes. That's one of my worries too. That final assembly when the cases go together and hoping everything will work. I've done some practice runs on a 650 sets of cases I have with the transmission shafts installed and it does not just snap together likeI I thought. I might have a go at washing the bottm of the motor out with kero seeing as the motor is out of the frame and I can wash it from the sump side and then from the top (cylinder) side and see if I am happy with the result. Although I am not at all confident about getting all the metal particles out from the big end area and around the oil separator plates.
 
I would love to do this, but never had to split the case. It takes a lot
of time and makes a mess. Very rarely bikes have transmission problems
or other reasons to split the case. After 25 bikes, not one transmission
issue ever. Would love to tear into it though and see everything "move"
in a stealthy dream in front of me. And how the gears interact with each other.

I've seen how they put these cases altogether in China. Incredible
and only one human assembly line. It seems too easy.
 
jadesystem said:
I would love to do this, but never had to split the case. It takes a lot
of time and makes a mess. Very rarely bikes have transmission problems
or other reasons to split the case. After 25 bikes, not one transmission
issue ever. Would love to tear into it though and see everything "move"
in a stealthy dream in front of me. And how the gears interact with each other.

I've seen how they put these cases altogether in China. Incredible
and only one human assembly line. It seems too easy.
Click to expand...

What kind of bike where they building?
 
Last year, I went to a city in China famous for motorcycle manufacturing. It is called Jiangmen City. I knew the sales manager there, and he invited me to a tour of his factory. In China, no bikes are over 250cc. Most are
100cc -125cc engines.

What was so amazing was the engine line and how they put these engines together. Understand the mindset in China, besides being the manufacturing arm of the word, and making 99% of the US imports -
"everthing is made in China" holds true. One other important aspect
of the China mindset........No robotics or factory automation. They would rather pay 200 new college graduates $200/year than pay millions on factory automation such as robotic assembly. Read the book "China Inc." !! China has an untapped workface in the MILLIONS !!

An engine assembly line complete with rollers and about 6 Chinese assembly workers. From the bare sidecase on its side, the case was
filled with the transmission assy, then the connecting rod with piston
and the crank, then the main bearings, the clutch assy, and the other
half of the side case attached. Then they used mallets to install the seals.

Then the completed bottom case was swung upright, and cylinders was next installed. Then the valve and head assembly went over the top
with the cam chain installed. And what was so amazing, they did it so lightning quick down to a "T". During the final "leg" of the assembly, a senior Chinese expert adjusts the valves by experience only, and dunks them in water for a leak check. This was an assembly line no more than
20-25 feel long. Then these whole engines are taken to a testing room where they are hooked-up electrically, hooked up top a temp gas tank, and a temporary exhaust is attach to them. They are kicked-over and started with a electronic starter to verify its integrity. I was blown away by this. I'll see if I have pics of this and will showcase on another thread.

The company is called Jinyee Motorcycle Company, and here is their website.

jinyeemotor.com

KT :-D\\:D/









was




how
 
I woud say very,very,very few people ever ever get into the case......
say maybe 5% of the people on this GS website. I'm I wrong guys ???
 
What if you have been in two or more? I had to replace a secondary bevel gear in one and have replaced the case sealant in another due to excess gas in oil left by previous owner. It really isn't anymore difficult than pulling head.
 
waterman said:
What if you have been in two or more? I had to replace a secondary bevel gear in one and have replaced the case sealant in another due to excess gas in oil left by previous owner. It really isn't anymore difficult than pulling head.
Click to expand...

I'll take your word for it WATERMAN. I'll give it a go this weekend if I get time. I have to pull down the clutch side cover and assembly and also the generator side as well. Do you suggest I pull the rotor off the end of the crank before I split the cases or can it stay on for the whole procedure? And I guess it is best to replace all seals while the motor is apart. What sealant is used where the outside of the seals fit into the aluminium cases, both for gearbox shafts and crankshaft? Cheers. Don.
 
I didn't pull the rotor, it came apart with it intact. Remember, I did this on a plain bearing 650 not a roller bearing 550. I would think roller bearings would not tend to leak as badly since the lower oil pressure.

As for the where shafts enter and exit cases, most had pinned sealed bearings that simply stop the flow of oil. The crankshaft has a hard rubber seal behind rotor, on mine, it went in dry. Just make sure as you are reassembling to rotate internals to be sure they are not binding or catching. Without pistons and head, parts should easily turn with very little resistance.
 
Thanks WATERMAN. I will understand more when I get the cases apart. I took the clutch cover, pressure plate, clutch plates and centre hub out this afternoon. It took me a while to work out how to remove the 32mm nut that holds the centre hub on the mainshaft without the hub rotating. Eventually worked it out and got that big nut off. Will attempt to do more tomorrow. Might take some pics as well. Will report back later.
 
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