oil cooler fabricateing

[first timer]

hey guys, i'm working on making a set of easy to read cad/pdf drawing to show you how to fab up a oil cooler for your 2v bikes. i am working off of some info i found here

http://users.tpg.com.au/kkmiller/bike/OilCoolerAdapter.htm


and measurements i am taking off of a existing lockhart philips oil adapter i have.

terry's adapter http://members.optusnet.com.au/~sherriffbuck/gallery.html

some things i noticed is on the home made cooler as with terry's adapter, the oil return is set right behind the oil output and with the lockhart adapter the return is set real far back, is there a reason for this?i looked at the motor and there seems to be 2 sump holes, one in the very back and one in the very front for the return.

i rather place a return hole as far back as possable because what i have now with the return next to output like terrys is a very thin wall (about 1/16") seperating the return hole from one of the mounting holes, then if i am to tap it for fittings the thread will bite even deeper making it even thiner. But if i move the return back i should have enough room.

also i notice when i placed the lockhart adapter on the motor, the output nipple that should sit flush or snug or even inside the output port of the motor seems a little far away, can anyone measure the depth of the output nipple.
the output nipple would sit agaist the oil output port of the motor. i get about 9/16's on the lockhart adapter the guy on the website sez 5/8" should, i just go 5/8's and say sand it down till it fits flush. i guess i could also get some clay and press it in the output port of the motor then put the lockhart adapter in place and tighten it down and see how much the clay compresses.

sorry this is probly way to confusing please feel free to ask me questions. i'm doing this cause if i can come up with the drawing i can have a friend fab one up for me free.

i can email my working cad drawing if you want to take a look to see what i am talking about, but you will need autocad 2000.

-ryan

 

[RJ]

Check out www.oldkawman.com and click onto the oil cooler fab project for some more useful info.

 

[Guest]

I might be tempted to use a cooler of a 1200 Bandit.

Paul

 

[first timer]

here is what he was talking about,

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/s-10101/p-8051/c-10101

but i need info on making the adapter, i know how the oil cycles thru the motor i just need som clearifcation.

thanks, for the tip on the cooler, they seem like a good design for cheap,

to bad i got me a derale and a lockhart to choose from

-ryan

 

[Nerobro]

Well... I have been looking at the problem myself. I don't see why to go through all of that complexity. There is an oil pressure sender behind the cylinders of every GS. Why not just put a simple "t" fitting in there to get an oil supply.

As for oil return, that's the fun question. On steve's bike, the top end oil returns through the timing chain hole. Why not do that ourselves.

No machining necessary, and you dump cool oil into the head. Where our bikes need cooling anyway. We would need to put a line restrictor in there as well, just for sanitys sake.

Is there another reason for the complex nature of those other adapters?

I figure if there is going to be machining involved, why not just do an adapter like the honda design. And use "normal" oil filters ;-)

I am going to go downstairs and doubble check what I've said.

 

[first timer]

it's not that hard this "adapter, it's just gettign the info right the first time.

-ryan

 

[first timer]

anyone got any ideas about the return hole placement

-ryan

 

[Nerobro]

my first throught is to dump it in the valvecovers.

Otherwise, I think we have a low pressure zone in the oil filter cap that we can exploit.

 

[first timer]

thats creating more work for yourself, it just needs to be dumped back into the oil presure switch area, and as far as i can tell i can do it in the front of the oil presure switch houseing or the back, there are two return holes, the orginal lochart oil adapter for the 2v motors dumped the oil into the rear return. i just wanted to figure out why both terry and this other guy on line put the return right behind the output port.

i guess i could keep the return in the middle but i may have to tighten up my tolerances a little, wich will make it harder for people to fabricate.

would anyone mind taking a look at my work so far and criticing the design.

-ryan

 

[Nerobro]

If you can get me a drawing I'll gladly take a look at it.

 

[gtsg01]

I just posted four pictures of an old styls oil cooler adapter in the GSGarage. Thry are pretty self explanatory.

http://groups.msn.com/SuzukiGSGarage/shoebox.msnw?Page=Last

All of the oil comes from the oil filter through the center port of the adapter to the cooler. The oil from the cooler comes back into the adapter and is routed to the transmission and crankshaft through the aft and forward galleys in the block.

If you dump the oil back into the head, you will dump all of the oil pressure as well

If you don't bring pressurized oil back into the adapter, you will fry the engine PDQ.

 

[Planecrazy]

I will be most interested in how this all plays out, and if you can get your buddy to fab up two adapters I'll gladly flip a few bucks his way for the trouble! Then all I have to do is obtain an appropriate cooler to attach to it!

Regards,
Steve 8)

 

[first timer]

I just posted four pictures of an old styls oil cooler adapter in the GSGarage. Thry are pretty self explanatory.

http://groups.msn.com/SuzukiGSGarage/shoebox.msnw?Page=Last

All of the oil comes from the oil filter through the center port of the adapter to the cooler. The oil from the cooler comes back into the adapter and is routed to the transmission and crankshaft through the aft and forward galleys in the block.

If you dump the oil back into the head, you will dump all of the oil pressure as well

If you don't bring pressurized oil back into the adapter, you will fry the engine PDQ.

thank you gts, that is the exact cooler i adapter that i am working off, an you gave em a vital clue that my adapter didn't come with, the rubber wash for the center port. i suspected that the center port on the adapter was not making contact with the center output port on the motor and you pics confirm this that i rubber washer is needed.

could you please take a couple pics of just the washer or confirm it is just a standard rubber washer with nothing fancy and give me a thickness of it so i can go buy one. that would be very helpful.

now back to my second question does anyone have a preferance to where the oil return hole should be? should it be closer to the transmission return hole like shown in gts pics or should it be closer to crank case hole (probly not possable due to engine fins)

i guess that is why some have altered the design and put the return hole closer to the center of both holes. does that really matter though in a pressureised system should both holes be getting about the same amout of oil if it is being pushed into that space.

on a side note why should i stray from a design that manufactures settled on like in gts pics.



-ryan

steve we will see how things go, i am not to sure of this guys capcity to do more then one, it's kinda a favor to me. but should be real easy for a shop to make for you if they have good drawing which i am hoping to have soon

 

[gtsg01]

My Camera won't focus on the washer at a distance close enough to show the details. I have posted a drawing (use the previous link that shows the configuration.

It has a groove that the adapter pipe slips onto. I am not sure that this is critical, if you can find a rubber washer that has the correct ID x OD x thickness to create the pressure seal.

I hope this is helpful. Happy Hunting.

 

[first timer]

hey thanks gts,

anyone have any ideas where one could get one of these little guys,

i thought about using a rubber washer that is 1/2 the thinkness of .15 since that is how far the metel shoud be from the output port, but am a little concerned that the washer may slip out of place and possablely plug a passage and do damage.

any ideas would be appricated.

-ryan

 

[redliner1973]

I used a metal washer on mine to create that 'seal' your looking for on the adapter. the inner surface was sort of tapered, I pressed it by finger as hard as I could, them mounted the adapter, and with alternatingly tightening the 2 mount screws, press-fitted-to-match the output port on the engine. You MUST have some kind of seal there to make the adapter work. AS for rubber, the only type I can think of that may work, is the 10mm oil cooler 'adapter' seals that work when converting an older VW air-cooled beetle oil cooler, to a newer style cooler. these are available at any good foreign car parts specialist that works/sells air-cooled VW parts. Those cooler seals will withstand high oil temps and not disintegrate like alot of 'home-made' washers will. I used metal on mine because I had access to a metal washer that fit the bill at my work. If you like, I will get one for you and send it. PM on that if you like.

 

[first timer]

could you please post some pics of the washer, i will also look into the vw washer deal and see how tht goes,

should i then as i am putting some drawings together just make these newer adapters output ports long so there is no need for a seal of any sort it will just press against it.

i may email terry and see what he did if he doens't mind.

-ryan

 

[redliner1973]

could you please post some pics of the washer, i will also look into the vw washer deal and see how tht goes,

should i then as i am putting some drawings together just make these newer adapters output ports long so there is no need for a seal of any sort it will just press against it.
-ryan

i have yet to figure out why that adapter was not made that way originally. the washer I spoke of pretty much does just that.

I used this 'washer' on the same adapter that gtsg01 posted pics of. If I can get some, i will get a pic of it here.

 

[first timer]

ok cool , i think i will just add the lenght then to this new adapter i will have made.

-ryan

 

[Anonymous]

Re: oil cooler fabricateing

some things i noticed is on the home made cooler as with terry's adapter, the oil return is set right behind the oil output and with the lockhart adapter the return is set real far back, is there a reason for this?i looked at the motor and there seems to be 2 sump holes, one in the very back and one in the very front for the return.

Hi Ryan,

I'm the kkmiller whose site you've been looking at. I put those pics there as Chris Dailey didn't have any site space, and I was looking at making something like he describes. In the end I bought an adapter from Terry on the sherrifbuck site that you also mention.

The question about how far back the return nipple should be concern what is happening under the original, non cooled, oil pressure switch.

The oil is pumped up from the sump, it pushes the copper switch plate off the metal (turning the dash light off) and then flows rearwards a little and down again (just where the rear cover bolt is), into the oil galleries and through the motor.

If you look at the Suzuki adapter pics you will see that the oil return opens inside the cover just where that rear bolt is.
The adapter that Terry made for me has the return coming to the same place but from the left side and not the rear.

The main thing for your own design is that the oil gets to where it needs to go. It doesn't really matter which direction it comes from. Luckily there is a fair bit of space inside the adapter, and as long as the oil gets in there it will flow in the right direction.

And on a related matter....

The oil cooler I use is made for me by a friend with a lathe. It is a 250mm length of 45mm dia aluminium billet, drilled through and finned from one end to the other - 2mm fins with 2mm gaps. The oil lines are elbowed into each end. It sits across the bike in the normal position. Bullet proof and very effective when measured with a laser temp gun.

Kim