Oil filter cover stud. .... Helicoil or Timesert.

[Redman]

I may have a stripped out oil filter cover stud (stripped out threads in crankcase). Do not absolutly know its stripped, but is probably close. Last oil change the stud came out rather than the nut comming off. WHen I put it back in it seemed like it didnt tighten down like it should have, but I stopped before it complety stripped out. Cover does not seem to be leaking at present (but have only gone maybe 100 miles since then, mostly has been sitting in cold garage looking out at the ice and snow).

I have some new studs on order.

Question #1:
What size is the threads on this stud (the threads in crankcase end of stud)?

Do have some experience with helicoils.

Have done a forum search on helicoils (and "heli-coil") and only found one or two in last year (which is suspisious). Did see mention of TimeSerts, and have looked at thier website.

Looks to me that if I were to use helicoils I would have to get a drill bit, a tap and the helicoil insert (but dont know what size).

I like what I saw about the TimeSert (have watched the vidio on website), but for that I would have to get a drill bit, a countersink bit, a tap and a insert tool and the TimeSert insert (again , dont know what size).

Question #2: Any comment?

Want to get a kit that is just what I need for this repair, but dont really know what size I need. Cant compare cost of a helicoil kit to a TimeSert kit, because I dont know what size I need.

I am not a gearhead mechanic that is going to have need of buying a big kit for future use. I just want to get what I am going to need for this one repair.

{on a positive note: only 8 or 10 weeks till have clear dry roads.}

 

[bwringer]

The threads are 6mm diameter X 1.0mm pitch. Standard metric size.

You can get studs with an 8mm X 1.25mm pitch thread on one end and 6mm on the other (any good real hardware store will have them). If the crankcase threads are in fact truly stripped out, this is another avenue -- drilling and retapping for 8mm would likely be less destructive than a helicoil or insert.

 

[Guest]

If the threads are not totally buggered I'd chase them with a tap and put the new studs in with blue loctite.

 

[omaharj]

If the threads are not totally buggered I'd chase them with a tap and put the new studs in with blue loctite.

+1:clap::clap::clap:

 

[kochic]

M6 X 1.00mm,
I used to work with both at job and home and i prefer the helicoil kit.
Just follow the instructions and time to drill and tap straight(not crossthread).I will check if i have a spare helicoli tap + handle.
Marc

 

[Steve]

You may think that you will only need it for this one repair, but once you have the kit (either one), you will find more that "need" it.

You mentioned needing the drill, tap, tool, etc. for the TimeSert, well, you need them for the Heli-coil, too, so there really isn't any difference in that respect. You don't need a countersink tool, and the rest of that will come as part of the package that you can probably buy at Auto Zone for about $30. OK, I just looked at the Auto Zone site, it's a special order item and it's $35 for a kit with 12 inserts. Try looking at a "real" auto parts store, they might have that size in stock.

I believe the size for those studs is 6 x 1.0 mm. Not sure what length, but that does not matter for the topic at hand.

I know that several on the board have expressed their opinion, saying that the TimeSert is so much better because it is a solid piece that threads in, where the Heli-coil is only a wire, and it might unthread when you try to remove the stud (bolt, whatever). My personal experience with Heli-coils has been rather positive. I have used several of them over the years with only one failure, and that was probably my fault for improper preparation. My only experience with a TimeSert is the one that came out with the spark plug on my #2 son's 850 a couple of years ago. Tried to wrestle it off the plug without success, ended up swapping the head. (Turns out there were other problems, too.)

Since you are using these to put studs in, I don't think that having the Heli-coil back out would be an issue. You could use some Loc-tite on the Heli-coil and the stud to be sure, that way, the only thing coming loose is the nut on the outside end of the stud.

.

 

[bwringer]

If the threads are not totally buggered I'd chase them with a tap and put the new studs in with blue loctite.

+1:clap::clap::clap:

+2 -- first determine whether the threads are a total loss or not before removing precious aluminum from the cases. There is VERY little room for error here, and you have to remove a lot of metal to get an insert in.

Keep in mind that these studs do not need to withstand a lot of force. Hmmm... :-k

If there's any thread at all left, just enough to locate the stud, you might also try using an epoxy putty on the threads to fill things in. In fact, there's a "Form a Thread" kit that would be perfect.

Come to think of it, this might be the best approach to try -- if it doesn't work out it won't hurt anything.

 

[Guest]

I've wanted to try that "form a thread". I may try it out when I put together my 1230 kit. I have a couple of stator cover threads that are buggered.

 

[old_chopper]

Have to drill a larger hole for the insert versus the heli coil. I like the two ideas of trying to do the least material removal, the loctite and the thread putty. Hopefully one of these will work.
Personal experience on the two "inserts": Heli coils are a very good repair and require minimal amount of material to be removed. Usually are hardened so very durable. Can come out if improperly installed or galled.
Key-serts are strong and should never come out with a bolt. They are also heat treated so durable. Excellent if the fastener will be removed and installed frequently. Downside they require a lot larger hole to install.
They both have their applications.

 

[tkent02]

Have to drill a larger hole for the insert versus the heli coil.

Seems to me the next size up stud would need even less material removed, and the up side would be that the stud is now big enough for the job and may never need to be replaced again.

Drill the right size hole, use a bottoming tap for the threads, good to go.

 

[tkent02]

Seems to me the next size up stud would need even less material removed, and the up side would be that the stud is now big enough for the job and may never need to be replaced again.

Drill the right size hole, use a bottoming tap for the threads, good to go.

Edit, I'm not sure if you could go with a 7mm stud, or would you need to go to 8mm to get past the old chewed up threads.
Want me to experiment on one of my old engines?

 

[ukilme]

There are several ways to do it as mentioned. Chase the thread and try it again.

Move up to next bolt size if you have enough material to do it. Or heli-coil.

I used something similar to heli-coil,(a British version) as it was cheaper, on a pinch bolt for the forks on my zx7r track bike. It worked like a charm and held up great. As a matter of fact, the bolt felt more secure then the other three pinch bolts.

I have since used it several times on everything from a front wheel stand to a power tool and even my compressor.

And that stuff that forms a thread is crap. I have tried and it never lasts.

 

[spyug]

Don't know about that form a thread stuff but I swear by epoxy putty. As mentioned, that is not a high stress stud so the putty will work nicely if there is some thread to grab. I've done this on a couple of studs and its always worked tickety boo.

I'd give that a try first as a simple and low cost solution.

Good luck with it.

Cheers,
Spyug

 

[makr]

A Time-sert is far superior to a Heli-coil.

The draw back is you can buy a 6x1 STI tap, and grind a notch in a regular bolt to do a Heli-coil, where a Time-sert needs a tap, counter sink, and a roll tap to insert it.

Heli-coils work fine and I very rarely see them pull out.

 

[Steve]

Seems to me the next size up stud would need even less material removed, and the up side would be that the stud is now big enough for the job and may never need to be replaced again.

Edit, I'm not sure if you could go with a 7mm stud, or would you need to go to 8mm to get past the old chewed up threads.

Move up to next bolt size if you have enough material to do it. ...

One major problem, as I see it, with going to the next larger size is that the thread pitch does not match. As the threads go out of sync, you will end up with considerably LESS material in the thread area. Going up two sizes to a 8mm might leave you with enough material for threads, but by then, you will be almost large enough to put in the Heli-coils.

.

 

[Guest]

A Time-sert is far superior to a Heli-coil.

The draw back is you can buy a 6x1 STI tap, and grind a notch in a regular bolt to do a Heli-coil, where a Time-sert needs a tap, counter sink, and a roll tap to insert it.

Heli-coils work fine and I very rarely see them pull out.

I've used heli coils on many aluminum intake manifolds back in the V-8 days without a single problem.

 

[Redman]

Thanks Guys.

Thanks for the specific info on thread sizes. That will allow me to determine cost and such of the various options.

I will be again reviewing all the responces in great detail.

Not to argue with anyone, but my observation is that for:
- HeliCoil; will need drill bit, tap and helicoil coil itself.
- TimeSert; will need drill bit, countersink bit, tap, insert tool bit and the insert itself. So is more to have to purchase.

.

 

[ukilme]

Thanks Guys.

Thanks for the specific info on thread sizes. That will allow me to determine cost and such of the various options.

I will be again reviewing all the responces in great detail.

Not to argue with anyone, but my observation is that for:
- HeliCoil; will need drill bit, tap and helicoil coil itself.
- TimeSert; will need drill bit, countersink bit, tap, insert tool bit and the insert itself. So is more to have to purchase.

.

If you buy the heli-coil kit. It will come with everything but the drill bit. It will tell you which bit size to use.

 

[makr]

Thanks Guys.

Thanks for the specific info on thread sizes. That will allow me to determine cost and such of the various options.

I will be again reviewing all the responces in great detail.

Not to argue with anyone, but my observation is that for:
- HeliCoil; will need drill bit, tap and helicoil coil itself.
- TimeSert; will need drill bit, countersink bit, tap, insert tool bit and the insert itself. So is more to have to purchase.

.

Well kinda. If you are just looking to do this on the cheap. I would get a "c" drill that is .242 diameter. Really a 1/4 would do it if you are in a bind. An m6 x 1 STI tap. The Helicoil has a tang at the bottom that in a kit has a special driver that will hook the tang and drive it into the tapped hole. I have used a bolt that I filed a notch to the first full thread. the notch catches the tang and drives it in.

I do this all day so if this discription seems over whelming, just buy a kit. Actually the Helicoil kit, and the tools to do a time sert are prolly about sixes, price wise. Personaly I would take a Time sert over a Helicoil any day.