Oil Leak (with pics)

[zx7]

Hey guys,

I think I may have found the source of my oil leak (sort of anyway) thanks to a thread on here by another fellow. I thought I would check with the experts here to make sure I am not on the wrong path.

Here is where I think the leak starts:

And I think most of the oil drains through this hole (the one next to what I think is the tranny drain plug - correct me if I'm wrong)...what do you guys think...? According to that other thread, this hole may drain from the starter cavity...

So, if that is the case which seal/o-ring would I need to replace in this
diagram...?

And would there be a way to do this without removing the carbs (does not look like it but I thought I would ask )?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

small thin rathcet ont he bolts after disconnecting hte batery

the starte will slide back and you may be able to lift it straight up then pull it out towards you.

its a tight fit though

have fun

 

[chiphead]

17 prevents oil from leaking externally into the cavity where the starter motor sits.
3 prevents oil from leaking into the starter motor then leaking out into the cavity where the starter motor sits.

 

[zx7]

Huh, you guys are fast.

I had a bit of a difficult time getting the bolt out on the far side in that first pic. What about 6 and 12...? Maybe I am better off replacing all of them since I am in there anyway...?

I guess that is definitely my leak though, hey? I assume it should be oil free in there?

Thanks again.

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

those would be like 3 just to keep contaminants out of the starter

I opened mine to check the brushes and other specs and its amazing how clean and shimy they stay on the inside even with the minimal dust formt he brushes.

I doubt they would get any dynamic loading so they are likely fine

it would be quite easy to cut or mar the 17 ring as the edge of the hole in the case is quite sharp

use some lube when inserting and maybe remove the carbs cos if the fit is tight yah may be forced to slide the shaft in on an angle possible damaging the new seal

 

[zx7]

those would be like 3 just to keep contaminants out of the starter

I opened mine to check the brushes and other specs and its amazing how clean and shimy they stay on the inside even with the minimal dust formt he brushes.

I doubt they would get any dynamic loading so they are likely fine

it would be quite easy to cut or mar the 17 ring as the edge of the hole in the case is quite sharp

use some lube when inserting and maybe remove the carbs cos if the fit is tight yah may be forced to slide the shaft in on an angle possible damaging the new seal

So you think 17 would be the only one I would need to change...? I am a little nervous about messing with the carbs as I have never done that before...is the easiest way to remove them to loosen the clamps on either side and slide them out...? I guess to remove the starter it looks like I would just loosen the #14 screws and slide the starter back/up/out...?

I guess I should get a manual.

Thanks again for you help.

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

someone who has worked on this specific model should be able to answer this

I am sure I can do it on my 550 but i have to remove the cam chain tensioner and move sa top oiler hose not the carbs though

your bike looks like it has a lot of wiggle space though much more than mine


someone here has done this and can give a definitive answer.

the nice hting is you have a camera so get a friend to take lots of pics as you work so reassembly isnt such a guessing\memory\logic game.

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

sorry yes 17 is likely all you need 3 maybe but I doubt it if the starter is cranking fine

if the seal was bad pressure would most likely have contaminated things by now

 

[zx7]

sorry yes 17 is likely all you need 3 maybe but I doubt it if the starter is cranking fine

if the seal was bad pressure would most likely have contaminated things by now

Yeah the starter works great - I sometimes do not even have to choke to start.

And by contamination you mean the starter not working, right...?

Thanks a bunch for your help Calvin.

 

[Calvin Blackmore]

yah not cranking or doing so slowly\erratically
oil and the brush dust would conspire to make a nasty slurry in there

 

[scotto58]

I just replaced the starter on my 79 GS850 without pulling the carbs. I also have a Pacifico Shadow Classic fairing with lowers mounted on the bike. It IS a tight fit but can be done. Use a 10mm socket for the bolts that hold the starter in. I used a deep well socket then switched to a regular depth with an extention.
Good Luck

Scott

 

[zx7]

Thanks a bunch guys. I just ordered the o-ring. Unfortunately it will only be in next Thursday. I let you know how it goes.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[bwringer]

The o-ring is a standard metric size -- if you can find an auto parts store that sells metric o-rings, you can find an exact replacement. Bring the starter with you, or measure the groove with calipers if you have them.

Removing and replacing the carbs is much easier than you think it is, and the added room to maneuver and reduced frustration will be well worth the extra few minutes involved to pull the carbs. Overall, you'll likely save time by pulling the carbs first.

By the way, exactly what sort of motorcycle is that? I don't believe it's mentioned.

 

[waterman]

zx7, I am a little confused, is the oil leaking into the starter well? I would be sure it isn't leaking from the base gasket or above. One of my 650g (like yours) was leaking from about everywhere and made it difficult to determine source. I am still dealing with a seeping oil pan gasket as well as gear shifter shaft seal.

Since my tranny failure, I have resurrected my 650 parts bike and the other is sitting in back of garage where I could take a look to see how bad it is to get starter out. I doubt you will have room to pull out starter without pulling carbs. Pulling carbs is not too difficult, putting them back is the fun...

 

[zx7]

The o-ring is a standard metric size -- if you can find an auto parts store that sells metric o-rings, you can find an exact replacement. Bring the starter with you, or measure the groove with calipers if you have them.

Removing and replacing the carbs is much easier than you think it is, and the added room to maneuver and reduced frustration will be well worth the extra few minutes involved to pull the carbs. Overall, you'll likely save time by pulling the carbs first.

By the way, exactly what sort of motorcycle is that? I don't believe it's mentioned.

Sorry bwringer, I thought I had mentioned it, but that was in another thread. It is a 81 GS650G.

I am a little hesitant to pull the carbs for 2 reasons:

1) I have never done it before and I don't want to mess anything up (I don't have a manual yet, although I plan on getting one). I do not know how old some of the parts are and I have read some stories here when pulling things apart, parts have torn/broken.
2) She's my daily driver and if I do mess something up, I don't want her sitting while I drive my pig of a truck 130 - 150 km every day. She really sucks the gas.


Having said that I sure do enjoy working on her! :-D Maybe my fears are unfounded though...

Thanks for the tip on the o-ring. I'll see if I can find the time to pull the starter and run to town. There is a NAPA close by.

Thanks for your help

 

[zx7]

zx7, I am a little confused, is the oil leaking into the starter well? I would be sure it isn't leaking from the base gasket or above. One of my 650g (like yours) was leaking from about everywhere and made it difficult to determine source. I am still dealing with a seeping oil pan gasket as well as gear shifter shaft seal.

Since my tranny failure, I have resurrected my 650 parts bike and the other is sitting in back of garage where I could take a look to see how bad it is to get starter out. I doubt you will have room to pull out starter without pulling carbs. Pulling carbs is not too difficult, putting them back is the fun...

That's a good point.

I am going on the assumption that the starter well should not have any oil in it. It is a little hard to see in the pic, but the oil is coming out by the starter cover. The previous day to the pic I had that area sparkling clean with engine cleaner and that pic was the result of about 130 -150 km drive.

The hole in the second pic is what I believe the starter well drains to (got that info from another thread).

It is possible that the oil pan gasket is seeping as well as oil gets all over down there.

I think the gear shifter shaft seal (I assume you mean the shaft that runs from the piece you actually use your foot to shift - excuse my lack of knowledge ) is dry.

I guess I will fix the leak by the starter first and go from there...and hope that is the only one. [-o<

Thanks a lot for your help.

 

[zx7]

I just replaced the starter on my 79 GS850 without pulling the carbs. I also have a Pacifico Shadow Classic fairing with lowers mounted on the bike. It IS a tight fit but can be done. Use a 10mm socket for the bolts that hold the starter in. I used a deep well socket then switched to a regular depth with an extention.
Good Luck

Scott

Thanks. That gives me a little hope that I can avoid pulling the carbs. It looks like there is enough room, but it will be tight.

Thanks for your help.

 

[waterman]

Just came in from garage; while I won't say that the starter can't be removed without pulling carbs, I do think it would be much easier with the carbs out. I see a couple of clearance issues, mainly the position of the cam chain tensioner. It will take a very short extension or an intermediate length deep well socket to go on straight for starter bolts. A swivel socket may give you a chance. I think you may have trouble getting it out once bolts are removed. Give it a try, can't hurt too much.

If you go the carb removal route, just use a good quality philips screwdriver on the band clamps so that you can tighten them upon reassembly without slippage. I like to use drywall bits since they tend to grip the screws tightly. Don't forget to loosen the clamp that connects air plenum to air filter airbox, this will give you clearance to slide carbs towards rear to aid removal.

If you need assistance with carb removal, just ask. I am sure many of us can assist with hints and tips. Big decision is whether you think the leaking oil is worth the hassle to tear apart right now. If it is only a small leak, I would live with it until a nice rainy weekend.

 

[speedzter2000]

zx7...
I had to pull the starter from my 550...You dont have to completely remove the carbs, or the cam tensioner...Hopefully, you have small hands. The biggest PITA was getting out the 10mm bolts that hold the starter down.
Loosen the rubber boot bolts on the carbs, and wiggle them back, and maybe to the side (if I recall correctly).
Make sure you've disconnected the battery as well before you do all this...(should have put that first).
Anyway, take pics of the carbs before, and of each thing you are doing. You are not turning any screws, etc on the carbs, so that shouldn't be an issue. It is BEST to pull the carbs to save yourself the headache, as well as busted up knuckles. It will also save you a lot of time trying to work around things.
Good luck!:-D

 

[zx7]

Just came in from garage; while I won't say that the starter can't be removed without pulling carbs, I do think it would be much easier with the carbs out. I see a couple of clearance issues, mainly the position of the cam chain tensioner. It will take a very short extension or an intermediate length deep well socket to go on straight for starter bolts. A swivel socket may give you a chance. I think you may have trouble getting it out once bolts are removed. Give it a try, can't hurt too much.

If you go the carb removal route, just use a good quality philips screwdriver on the band clamps so that you can tighten them upon reassembly without slippage. I like to use drywall bits since they tend to grip the screws tightly. Don't forget to loosen the clamp that connects air plenum to air filter airbox, this will give you clearance to slide carbs towards rear to aid removal.

If you need assistance with carb removal, just ask. I am sure many of us can assist with hints and tips. Big decision is whether you think the leaking oil is worth the hassle to tear apart right now. If it is only a small leak, I would live with it until a nice rainy weekend.

Thanks for the tips on the carb removal. Like you said, I think I will try first without removing the carbs and if needed I will then remove them. Good tip to know about the clamp that connects air plenum to air filter airbox - it does look like everything there is a tight fit.

The leak is a bit of a nuisance as it makes quite the mess - you can see from the pic that the exhaust already has quite a bit of burnt on oil that will be fun to clean off. After 300 - 400 km the level drops to about midway between the High and Low level markings on the oil sight glass...

One question though, if I do take it apart this weekend and end up not finding the correct o-ring at the auto parts store can I put it back in with the old o-ring (I know it will result in some wasted time on my part)? Will the worst case scenario be that it just continues to leak...?

Thanks a bunch for your help - I may be requesting carb assistance this week-end! :-D