Oil temp only indicator of heat?

[Rob S.]

Suppose I let my engine run for 30 minutes without moving the bike? No fan on it, in a heated garage. If the oil temp gauge did not show overheating, would it, could it overheat certain specific parts?

I'm guessing yes, and I'm wondering what those parts would be (valves, piston domes, something else in the combustion chamber?)

Before I go any further, let me stress that this is a completely theoretical question. Even when I start my bikes with no intention of riding, I'd say between 5 and 10 minutes is the longest I'd let them run, with a constant eye on the oil temp gauges and an ear on everything else (even a hand or finger, briefly, on everything except the head pipes).

I wonder, in part, because my 11E, since the installation of the 1150 oil cooler, runs really cold. I mean I'd have to be going up a steep hill at high speeds in 90f temps just to get the oil temp gauge significantly above 200f. (Before the cooler, it would approach almost 300f under a similar load).

Again, completely theoretical. When I do actually ride, I do very little warming up. I just don't stress it much while it's cold.

 

[Guest]

I would suggest using an oil thermostat to improve engine warm-up time and to keep oil temperature in the optimal range (212-240ish) while using an oil cooler. Then your bike will warm up normally and the cooler will only come into play once the thermostat temperature has been reached.

 

[posplayr]

Running you bike for extended periods is a good way to smoke your exhaust cams. This is especially true if it is on the side stand.

been there done that have the T shirt

 

[Rob S.]

Running you bike for extended periods is a good way to smoke your exhaust cams. This is especially true if it is on the side stand.

been there done that have the T shirt

Thanks - that is good to know. Why I asked.

It's on the side stand, but the side stand is on a brick because I want it more upright. In fact, when I first got it (before adding Race-Tech .9 front springs), it sat on two bricks (can't do that now).

I didn't know specifically it was the exhaust cams, but I'd heard something about it leaning over too much and too long. She doesn't have a center stand, and I don't trust my $19 "Trackside" paddock stand enough to walk far away while it's up there, especially since I had to go with the 'pads anywhere you can place them on the swingarm' option. I would prefer to pick her up the way they do in the real paddocks (studs on the rear axle?), but I didn't want to modify the bike.

To their credit, I guess, "Trackside" allows for both options, you assemble it either way you want it. They took $10 off the price, I jumped on it.

So let's say it sits for two months on the side stand on a brick, but I start it every two weeks. Is the brick, and not over-doing it enough, or should I center it or tilt it in the other direction before even starting it?

Well, that's in my head now, and unless I forget that's the way I'll be doing it.

Thermostat: I am seriously thinking about it, even though I rarely have two nickels to rub together these days. When I got her six years ago with 24k on the clock, she ran hot. Very hot. Too hot.

Either 320 or 300 Fahrenheit is the highest indication on the oil temp gauge. I got her at the beginning of October, so I may not have noticed until the spring, but yikes! I like to go 70 or 80 miles north of the city (foothills of the Catskill mountains), and I like to go at least 70 or 80 mph most of the way. Well, that needle was so high I was pulling in the clutch and coasting down hills! Something had to be wrong, right?

Well, besides me, my mother didn't raise any stupid kids. We can do things right, and find out what's wrong, or we can buy that cool 1150 cooler from a member here. Bought in May 2014 (my first spring with Suzi), installed in July. And WOW! I am not exaggerating when I tell you that only on days when it's above 90 f and I go say, tens of miles at sustained speeds of 70 to 90 mph does the needle indicate clearly above 200 degrees. That's almost too cool, right Master Po?

And didn't you teach me, Master Kan, that if we don't reach boiling point, 212 degrees Fahrenheit, we won't burn off any condensation that may have formed in the engine? My mechanic said 200 is okay. I don't have to get over boiling point. "Better cool than hot. We don't need to investigate this."

But that begs the question, why did it run so hot (near 300 f) when I first got it? Am I that hard on motors? History says yes. Parents and siblings have often said that I destroy everything I touch, particularly motor vehicles.

Someone fairly recently posted a pic here of a thermostat that sat on top of the engine (I think the tank was removed for the photo). It just looked so cool. Right now, I cover the cooler with cardboard in the winter, but I can't say that it makes any difference. I think the mere act of the oil traveling outside of the block is what's making the difference, more than the radiating effect of the cooler.

So, heat can be damaging parts, like the exhaust cams, even when the oil temp gauge reads cool. Hey, you give me a motor, I bet I could damage more than the exhaust cams. It's what I do.

 

[alke46]

Having admitted that you can and do damage engines, I have to ask why in the hell do you start your bike every two weeks in the garage and run the engine for 10 minutes and then shut it down for another two weeks? That is more abusive then taking it out and redlining it every day. All you are doing is forming condensation inside the engine and not really burning it off.

Preaching is over ---- it's your bike, destroy it if that's what pleases you.

 

[93Bandit]

Running you bike for extended periods is a good way to smoke your exhaust cams. This is especially true if it is on the side stand.

I've been told this many times by various "bike" people, and have read it on here, but I've never been told/read an explanation as to why it's an issue to idle on the side stand, and what the evidence of such behavior is.

I understand oil is going to run off to the low side of the head when on the side stand, but isn't oil fed to each cam lobe/bucket? If so, the lobes are getting oil so how does idling the engine without a load cause harm? I guess if it idled like that for a few years without shutting it down it might be damaged, but I don't understand how a few minuets of this causes any harm? Unless of course oil isn't fed to each bucket and they rely on a pool of oil to provide lubrication?

Please expand of your comment if you can. Please don't misinterpret my questions as calling you out (or anyone else) as a liar or anything like that. These are genuine questions and I want to learn.

 

[posplayr]

I've been told this many times by various "bike" people, and have read it on here, but I've never been told/read an explanation as to why it's an issue to idle on the side stand, and what the evidence of such behavior is.

I understand oil is going to run off to the low side of the head when on the side stand, but isn't oil fed to each cam lobe/bucket? If so, the lobes are getting oil so how does idling the engine without a load cause harm? I guess if it idled like that for a few years without shutting it down it might be damaged, but I don't understand how a few minuets of this causes any harm? Unless of course oil isn't fed to each bucket and they rely on a pool of oil to provide lubrication?

Please expand of your comment if you can. Please don't misinterpret my questions as calling you out (or anyone else) as a liar or anything like that. These are genuine questions and I want to learn.

The only thing I "know", is that after running some 20min+ my new 0.340 webcams, they were ground down and had to replace them.

I don't recall if i had a top end oiler at that point but the exhaust cams tend to not get as much oil flow as the intake. If you run an 1100 16V with the valve cover off you can see there is much more oil to the intake side.

I don't recall the exact configuration over the years where I eventually had Hi-pressure (750) gears and top end oiler, but the $450 webcams replacement I don't forget.

 

[Rob S.]

Having admitted that you can and do damage engines, I have to ask why in the hell do you start your bike every two weeks in the garage and run the engine for 10 minutes and then shut it down for another two weeks? That is more abusive then taking it out and redlining it every day. All you are doing is forming condensation inside the engine and not really burning it off.

Preaching is over ---- it's your bike, destroy it if that's what pleases you.

This past July, I had the 11E's carbs cleaned and rebuilt because it had sat for more than two years (other stuff done also). Before that, for the first three plus years I had her, as good as she ran, if it sat for more than two weeks, it took a lot of cranking to get her started. I'd read other owners had similar situation, Cycle World suggested it might be because the factory set the float bowl too low.

Even since the carb rebuild, I'm afraid to test the two-week limit (I know a member here recently commented that his '83 11E can sit for several months and start right up). I get (need the) comfort knowing that both bikes are always gassed, oiled and charged, ready to go at a moment's notice.

Sportster's battery limit is slightly over two weeks (stupid theft-deterrent system), otherwise it has sat for months and started right up. As per the owner's manual, after starting the 11E, I back off the "choke" until it is running at 2k rpm. ASAP, I back off choke to normal idle (1.1k). I like to wait another minute or two until the oil temp needle nudges off bottom. I also try to resist (limit) the goosing of the throttle. I seem to be the only one in my building who likes the noise and hydrocarbon smell.

Think I should get brave and try to see how long I can extend Suzi's "easy-start" limit?

PS When I was young, I rode (and red-lined) every day. On the all-too-rare occasions when I ride these days, I briefly red line (or come close), and try to do "the buck" (or come close). I need to burn off the condensation in my soul.

 

[eil]

I don't have the decades of experience on these bikes as some forum members do, so take anything I say with a grain of sale or as outright lies if you wish.

In the GS850 service manual, in the section about setting the engine idle speed, it says:

Start up the engine and warm it up by running it at 2000 r/min for 10 minutes in summer, when ambient temperature is 30C (86F), or for 20 minutes in the winter when ambient temperature is down to approx -5C (23F).

My rationalization is that if Suzuki says it's fine to run the bike at 2k rpm for 10 minutes in arguably hot weather, then it stands to reason that it should be able to idle indefinitely at just about any ambient temperature. Assuming that the bike is all in proper tune and unmodified from stock, of course. Further, with the Japanese bike manufacturers' ridiculous attention to detail and reliability, it doesn't make sense to me that they would forget about the rider stuck in traffic on a hot summer day when they were engineering the thing.

 

[93Bandit]

I don't have the decades of experience on these bikes as some forum members do, so take anything I say with a grain of sale or as outright lies if you wish.

In the GS850 service manual, in the section about setting the engine idle speed, it says:



My rationalization is that if Suzuki says it's fine to run the bike at 2k rpm for 10 minutes in arguably hot weather, then it stands to reason that it should be able to idle indefinitely at just about any ambient temperature. Assuming that the bike is all in proper tune and unmodified from stock, of course. Further, with the Japanese bike manufacturers' ridiculous attention to detail and reliability, it doesn't make sense to me that they would forget about the rider stuck in traffic on a hot summer day when they were engineering the thing.

This is exactly what I've always thought, right or wrong.