ok to charge battery while still on the bike?

[DimitriT]

do I need to disconnect the terminals first? Is it really gonna screw up the R/R?

 

[Basket Case]

Yup. You always want to disconnect everything when recharging a battery. There's to much risk compared to the small amount of work required the unplug it and remove it.

 

[ericox]

Ive been using a battery tender jr. for quite a few years. It comes with a kit so you just plug in the bike in the garage. I love it, use it on both my bikes and even my truck a few times. They are safe to use with it in the bike.

I dont think it is a good idea to use a traditional charger with the battery connected.

 

[argonsagas]

This is truly an excellent post, and the subject deserves far more respect than most people are willing to give it. See my closing sentence.



Without exception, it is ALWAYS better to remove an unattended battery from the bike when charging it.

Failure to observe this has caused innumerable battery explosions and fires, with considerable ldamage or complete loss of the bikes.



The cause of concern is highly flammable/explosive hydrogen gas.

In the process of charging a standard lead/acid wet-type battery hydrogen gas is invariably produced. The same thing happens when you are riding the bike, but the gas dissipates rapidly, whereas in a garage, or other closed environment, there may be little air movement and the hydrogen can accumulate to some extent inside its confined area.


The lower the rate of charge, the lower the volume of hydrogen there will be in a given time frame, so it may be argued that a "tender" or one-amp charger is safer than a six or ten ampere charger. This would be correct, but the risk of fire, while apparently reduced, is always there.


The amount of gas that develops varies, depending on the battery and the rate of charge, but one thing remains constant: ANY source of ignition on or near the bike will ignite it.



Battery charging seems simple and very straighforward. I always thought that, too, until a spark from a loose cable triggered an internal explosion in a battery.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, the exploding gas sent sprays of acid from the vent caps, but the battery itself remained intact. I learned an instant respect at that moment, because the resultant acid burns to my eyes made me effectively blind for three weeks.


Take the battery OUT.

 

[Jethro]

I always wondered, Ron, is it safe to charge a battery in the garage if an oil burner is located 35 feet away? It totally freaks me out to have a potential hydrogen bomb in my garage. Should I run a cord to the driveway or something and put the battery on a blcok of wood ior something? What is a safe way to charge a battery?

 

[Boondocks]

do I need to disconnect the terminals first? Is it really gonna screw up the R/R?

You don't need to remove the terminals when charging a battery. It won't hurt the R/R. If you're storing the bike for an extended period, it's better to remove the battery to charge it and monitor the electrolyte level.

 

[Boondocks]

I always wondered, Ron, is it safe to charge a battery in the garage if an oil burner is located 35 feet away? It totally freaks me out to have a potential hydrogen bomb in my garage. Should I run a cord to the driveway or something and put the battery on a blcok of wood ior something? What is a safe way to charge a battery?

A hydrogen bomb in your garage?8-[ Why, it might take out a 30 mile radius if you light it off.:lol:

Battery explosions are caused when the source of ignition is very close to the battery. An oil burner 35 feet away is no problem for the small amount of hydrogen gas which is vented when the battery gasses. Haven't you ever charged your car or truck battery in the garage? These would release far more hydrogen gas than a motorcycle.

 

[smithbm]

Along these same lines, what is the best charging/initial setup method of a brand new battery? I've got a battery and a bottle of acid in my garage, but I don't know exactly how to go about the initial filling and charging. I seem to remember a bunch of acid bubbling out the top of a lawn tractor battery when I was trying to do this as a teenager. 8-[

 

[Jethro]

A hydrogen bomb in your garage?8-[ Why, it might take out a 30 mile radius if you light it off.:lol:

Battery explosions are caused when the source of ignition is very close to the battery. An oil burner 35 feet away is no problem for the small amount of hydrogen gas which is vented when the battery gasses. Haven't you ever charged your car or truck battery in the garage? These would release far more hydrogen gas than a motorcycle.

Well, is that safe? I just recently discovered that a charging battery emits hydrogen, and for years I would charge the battery on my workbench, right next to a very busy ashtray and a friggin' bench grinder!!!

 

[Boondocks]

This is truly an excellent post, and the subject deserves far more respect than most people are willing to give it. See my closing sentence.



Without exception, it is ALWAYS better to remove an unattended battery from the bike when charging it.

Failure to observe this has caused innumerable battery explosions and fires, with considerable ldamage or complete loss of the bikes.



The cause of concern is highly flammable/explosive hydrogen gas.

In the process of charging a standard lead/acid wet-type battery hydrogen gas is invariably produced. The same thing happens when you are riding the bike, but the gas dissipates rapidly, whereas in a garage, or other closed environment, there may be little air movement and the hydrogen can accumulate to some extent inside its confined area.


The lower the rate of charge, the lower the volume of hydrogen there will be in a given time frame, so it may be argued that a "tender" or one-amp charger is safer than a six or ten ampere charger. This would be correct, but the risk of fire, while apparently reduced, is always there.


The amount of gas that develops varies, depending on the battery and the rate of charge, but one thing remains constant: ANY source of ignition on or near the bike will ignite it.



Battery charging seems simple and very straighforward. I always thought that, too, until a spark from a loose cable triggered an internal explosion in a battery.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, the exploding gas sent sprays of acid from the vent caps, but the battery itself remained intact. I learned an instant respect at that moment, because the resultant acid burns to my eyes made me effectively blind for three weeks.


Take the battery OUT.

I can understand that your scary experience has made you very careful about batteries. Yes, there is some risk if you are charging a battery and care is not taken to prevent a spark. Battery charging manuals are full of these warnings, primarily for people who don't know that hydrogen gas is released during gassing and a flame or spark in close proximity can ignite it. This is for people who check the electrolyte level using a cigarette lighter for illumination. Or people who have loose connections at the battery which create sparks.

Under normal conditions when proper precautions are made, it is safe to charge the battery in a vehicle. Motorcycle batteries are more difficult to reach than car batteries, and nobody that I know of (except you) removes their battery just to charge it. Major motorcycle battery charger companies such as Battery Tender, Soneil and others sell their chargers with a harness which is permanently attached to the battery terminals for charging the battery without removing it. I doubt that with present liability awards that "Failure to observe this has caused innumerable battery explosions and fires, with considerable ldamage or complete loss of the bikes." is accurate. It does happen, but it is rare, and it is almost always operator error.

Your post has some good information, but I disagree with your conclusions.

 

[Boondocks]

Well, is that safe?

Yes, it is safe. It's not like an open pan of gasoline which is very dangerous when in an enclosed space and exposed to even a pilot light. Concentrated gasoline vapors are tremendously explosive and yet gasoline use is frequently treated very casually.

I just recently discovered that a charging battery emits hydrogen, and for years I would charge the battery on my workbench, right next to a very busy ashtray and a friggin' bench grinder!!!

This should be somewhat of a proof that it isn't easy to ignite a battery unless the ignition source is very close. It reminds me of when I was a teenager seeing gas station attendants pumping gas while smoking. In their case, a supposed display of bravado but in reality, stupidity.

Hydrogen gas is lighter that air. It would be more likely to ignite from a flame or spark directly above it or right next to the battery as from a battery cable. After venting it would dissipate rapidly to a nonflammable concentration.

 

[Boondocks]

Along these same lines, what is the best charging/initial setup method of a brand new battery? I've got a battery and a bottle of acid in my garage, but I don't know exactly how to go about the initial filling and charging. I seem to remember a bunch of acid bubbling out the top of a lawn tractor battery when I was trying to do this as a teenager. 8-[

Your battery should have come with activation instructions. I would try to find the instructions and follow them. Failing that:

1. Before filling, remove the rubber cap from the vent on the side and connect the vent tubing.
2. Remove the filler caps and fill each cell with acid to the "upper level" line.
3. Wait one hour before charging. If the electrolyte level has dropped, add more acid to the "upper level" line.
4. Charge for about 10 hours at 1 - 1.5 amps.
5. Add distilled water to adjust electrolyte level after initial charge, never acid.
6. Replace filler caps and clean battery as necessary.

Wear eye protection and rubber gloves. Don't get acid on your clothes.

 

[argonsagas]

Boondocks, you are correct about the fact that hydrogen is lighter than air, despite being a part of it, and proximity of the spark is a definite requirement for hydrogen detonation.

That said, I do not accept your statement of disagreement on the subject as a whole.

I am not stating that there is a great amount of danger involved, but I am saying that there is some danger involved, a danger that I have seen lead to serious problems, yet it is a risk that is easily avoided.

The simple truth is that almost anyone can be a wonderful after-fact coach regardless of the negative circumstance being discussed, however in dealing with life one one never fully expects or anticipates what the source of all problems may be.

My experience carried an extreme result, but it was very real and I was lucky in the truly extreme that my sight was not lost, or even badly damaged. A large part of that "luck" was that the incident occurred very close to a major hospital, and the emergency room staff hit me with a full bucket of water within seconds of the time I ran up to the desk, pushed everyone out of the way, and announced I had acid in my eyes. Why they had a bucket of water right there I do not know, but their rapid action worked.


Attempting to minimize my experience on the basis of averages, or with theoretical logic, is detrimental to the subject of safety and minimalizes the danger to the point that those reading your words might think there is none at all.

A curious paradox, is it not, when that argument is posed against the fact that one of us was literally, albeit temporarily, blinded by a moment of reality that saw that same logic fail totally?





A simple, and common example with motorcycle batteries is having a charger clip come loose. This usually happens because of the configuration of the terminals: they do not readily accept clips. Even untouched, the clips can come loose due to changing friction levels created by their own springs.

And they often do come loose.



Another common example might be having the charger unit sit on the bike, with its wires leading over to the battery. Should the modest weight of the charging cable succumb to gravity, shift and drop, the momentum of the moving wire might not cause the clip to come loose, but it very easily could do so, and there is a considerable chance that it would cause the clip to move.

Remember ANY momentary change in contact of the live charging clip and the battery terminal will invariably cause a spark.

It might seem to be a small spark, but nothing more than the tiniest of sparks is required to ignite hydrogen.


It is for this reason that one NEVER disconnects the charging clips from a battery while it is being charged. One ALWAYS disconnects the charger from the circuit, and only after that is done are the charging leads disconnected from the battery.



Riding a motorcyle is a risk, but all of us do it. In order to keep on doing that for a long time, what we also do is avoid unnecessary risks, especially those risks whose avoidance entails little or no effort on our part, and safe battery care certainly qualifies there.

Battery charging is something that we will all do, so why not make it a practice to do it safely?

 

[Boondocks]

Ron, I did not disagree with your statement as a whole. I do disagree that a battery should always be removed from the bike before charging.

Your last post has good tips and observations about battery connections.

Battery charging is something that we will all do, so why not make it a practice to do it safely?

I totally agree with this statement. One should be aware of the potential hazards of battery charging and use this knowledge to prevent accidents.

 

[scotty]

You don't need to remove the terminals when charging a battery. It won't hurt the R/R. If you're storing the bike for an extended period, it's better to remove the battery to charge it and monitor the electrolyte level.

I agree. There is no electrical reason to disconnect the terminals especially if the bike has been operational. On a bike thay has been laying for an extended period i would disconnect the terminals in case there was an electrical fault somewhere.

 

[kalessin]

Generally speaking, using a trickle charger (Battery Tender is a good brand) that comes with a connector to a set of ring terminals will work fine for in-bike charging. The Battery Tender will also refuse to charge unless it can sense that it's hooked up properly to a 12v battery that at least has a chance to take a charge. Battery tenders come with ring terminals screw down to the battery posts and won't slip off and make sparks, as well as a set of clamps. There's a wire from the charge unit that ends at a connector, and you can attach the wire with the ring terminals (which come with an inline fuse for attaching electric cold-weather gear) or clamps as appropriate.

I know many, many people who use this setup, including myself for the past five years. I haven't heard of a report of an exploding motorcycle battery other than the one in this thread.

 

[Rake78GS]

I agree. There is no electrical reason to disconnect the terminals especially if the bike has been operational. On a bike thay has been laying for an extended period i would disconnect the terminals in case there was an electrical fault somewhere.

A few years ago my GS wouldnt hold a charge. The stator was the problem as usual.

But I had an automotive charger at work and one at home. Not a trickle charger. When I got to work I would just riase the saet and hook up the charger to it. Same thing in the morning for an hour or so before going to work. Never had a problem durring or after.

 

[ScottHarriss]

In every case, when charging any battery, you should insure that you have plenty of ventilation to carry off any hydrogen emissions. In this way, you greatly decrease the possibillity of un-wanted excitations.