Ordered me some Neway cutters to do my own valve jobs today

[Nessism]

Being a cheap ba$tard sometimes I agonized over this purchase, but pulled the trigger and bought the cutters to recondition the valve seats on my GS1000 head. I'll still have to pay someone to surface the valves, and will buy the valve guide tools at some point too, but these tools will get me started.

Regarding valve guides, are bronze guides really better than cast iron? The reamers cost $40 each so which way to go is not trivial. Another consideration is that the OE guides are about $15 each, while APE wants $67 for a full set of silicon-bronze guides (guess I just answered my own question). The APE guides are stated to be shorter to clear high lift cams but how much shorter? And does anyone know what kind of clearance those bronze guides run at? OE is in the .0015 range but I'm not sure about the aftermarket guides.

Photo below does not show the actual parts I ordered, but they are close.

 

[BassCliff]

Ed,

Pretty soon you are going to be able to build your own Wes Cooley from empty beer cans and old bicycles. You rock!

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Nessism]

Ed,

Pretty soon you are going to be able to build your own Wes Cooley from empty beer cans and old bicycles. You rock!

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

I've got plenty of beer cans laying around...and a few bicycles too. I build bicycle frames as a hobby, braze them together and then paint. Building a custom GS frame may be a project for the future.:-\\\

 

[madjack57754]

I've used Neway hand cutters for years and think they're the only way to go for quick seat touch ups IMHO. I've got a full on Quickway head machine that I use to install seats and do full radiused seat jobs, but set-up takes more than 10x longer than the hand cutters. Absolutly would not be with out them in the hobby shop.
As to the guides, I buy from APE to get ready to use guides or Kibblewhite www.blackdiamondvalves.com and get undersized guides, then pull an adjustable reamer through after installation to get the middle of O.E. spec. range and have had no problems. Turn yourself a long pilot driver on the lathe ,chill with Co2 through the guide and 2 wacks with a 3lb. hammer and the iron guides are drive out very easy when chilled. Reverse the process with the bronze guides. I'll post a picture of the driver tomorrow, but it's pretty simple. There is a fancy tool that slowly pulls the guides in via a threaded shaft that locates off the seat. Bought one from yosh and used it on one 16 valve head. Half way through I tossed into a box and picked up the homemade driver and hammer. After the guides are in, install your Neway hand cutter pilot and gently cut away. That locates the valve properly. Just be sure to watch your margins. The cutters can chatter, even by hand so if you have a junk head, practice before you do your good head. I know what works for me, Someone may be able to shed more light an exact widths of margins and other things I'm forgetting.
Bronze guides are maybe .1 shorter

 

[Nessism]

Great info Jack! Thanks!

One thing I'm not sure about is if the 15 degree cutter I bought will fit down in the combustion chamber, particularly on the exhaust side. Going to have to see how the little cutting blades adjust and then go from there.

The valve guides on this head are tight. The head itself only has about 12k miles on it but it suffered water damage. The PO's mechanic lapped out the water corrosion pitting but in the process the seat margions are OS and the valves have a recess where they meet the seat.

I'm going to pick up another head and try my hand at a complete restore - guides and all, but that's not the immediate need. Some guy on ebay is selling a low mileage GS1100G head but he is selling the cam caps seperate which is pretty infuriating so I may have to pass.

 

[madjack57754]

I have a couple different sets. One set is for very small 4 stroke engines like ohv honda power equipment. That set gets into the 16v heads. Got it at a quiting business auction from a Honda equipment shop. Red box with Honda/Nuway labels. The other set fits the 8 valve heads and have I have four extra cutters that go clear up to 2 3/8" that came with the big head machine

 

[gs road racer]

Ed

Congrats on the buy.Now a word of caution....it's very easy to destroy seats with those cutters!Practice on an old head first , they remove material very quickly. Pressure that isn't perfectly centered will give you an oval or off center seat.Cutting has to be smooth , by hand it takes a lot of practice. If you use a mechanical device to drive the cutter it's better but requires even more diligence (the remove material very quickly part multiplied).Getting a perfect three angle job is a difficult process. Remember too that you've got to do this 8-16 times one slip and it's history. I've done a lot of work on heads over the years the one thing I won't do is replace guides.The head needs to be heated and the tool for removal from suzuki is one you use a hammer with..( you wanna use a hammer on your head)get the idea? Cooling the guides as suggested is also an option. It doesn't work well,sometimes a lot of force is required to remove the guides. Jigs to do this properly need to be manufactured. There's a reason places like APE have mega bucks invested in doing this kind of work. They also do it day in day out and it's precision work. Are you a machinist by trade? Having not done this for a number of years now I wouldn't even consider doing this myself unless I was going to go back into that business. All things considered I know how much satisfaction everyone gets by doing their own work. It's really part of why we own them most of us like to tinker and as a lot of posts indicate sometimes it get's us in trouble.Absolutely your call I'm just playing devil's advocate be careful and have fun....

Randy

 

[Nessism]

Well...I'm not a machinest but have one as a friend (I'm an engineer). I've done some basic machine work in the past and used to own an old South Bend lathe so I have a clue.

Been watching some videos on Youtube and in one the guy core drilled the guides on a Porche 911 so the guides will come out easily. Seems like something I can do. I also know it's common to heat the head before trying to drive the guide out. My understanding is that the OE Suzuki replacement guides are oversized and you need a special reamer to size the hole before installation. I need to do some more research before I get too far down the road on some of this stuff. Thanks for the words of caution.

 

[gs road racer]

OMG an engineer it's toast can smell it burning from here..... Yes the guides will need reaming. Are the old ones bad? Drilling the guides is something I've not done but it makes sense to relieve some pressure. Be careful when you heat the head , use your oven and make sure your wife isn't home....It gives nice even heat and easy to control temperature I'd try 200-250F it shouldn't be smoking hot.... If you need a lot of force to remove a guide STOP you may remove material and the new one wouldn't be tight or go in crooked. A thought of drilling what ever size you drill to make your own guide driver on the lathe the standard guide tool wouldn't work well with a sloppy fit. I'd bet drilling, heating would have them falling out which happens sometimes just with the heat.Oh and it should go without mentioning but since I'm playing devil strip the head completely before heating and clean. If there are traces of oil it'll really smell/smoke badly. Check the head gasket surface with a good machinists straight edge when you're done.

Febreeze won't cover it up......Have fun it'll be an adventure let us know how it turns out!

 

[Guest]

I'll keep you busy Ed.

 

[rapidray]

The inconsistency & chatter is why I bought Serdi stuff. I like it much better & the set up in the Serdi is quick. PLUS, I have radiused cutters that cut the entire seat, ALL angles in one pass! Blows away a 3 angle & better than a 5 angle valve job too! Good way to learn on a budget Ed. Like several said before, practice on junk heads first! Ray.

 

[Nessism]

The inconsistency & chatter is why I bought Serdi stuff. I like it much better & the set up in the Serdi is quick. PLUS, I have radiused cutters that cut the entire seat, ALL angles in one pass! Blows away a 3 angle & better than a 5 angle valve job too! Good way to learn on a budget Ed. Like several said before, practice on junk heads first! Ray.

Serdi machines cost something like $35,000. Not in the budget. You have a Serdi in that overstuffed garage of yours Ray?

The advise about practicing on a junk head is good, only I don't have a junk head. I just bought another head off ebay, but it's not junk so guess I'll just have to go slow and use lots of marking blue to check each pass of the cutters.

 

[Guest]

I have a junk head I can ship to you. As long as you don't mind molten pistons on the seats.

 

[gs road racer]

The inconsistency & chatter is why I bought Serdi stuff. I like it much better & the set up in the Serdi is quick. PLUS, I have radiused cutters that cut the entire seat, ALL angles in one pass! Blows away a 3 angle & better than a 5 angle valve job too! Good way to learn on a budget Ed. Like several said before, practice on junk heads first! Ray.

Ray what model Serdi do you have?

 

[Nessism]

I have a junk head I can ship to you. As long as you don't mind molten pistons on the seats.

Thanks for the offer Bill but these cutters are too big for the puny little valves in your 1100 16v head. I need a manly 8v head.

 

[salty_monk]

Tom MLC seems to have a lot of junkers at the moment...

 

[rapidray]

Ray what model Serdi do you have?

It's an old 100. I also have a Serdi 2000 Micro. Ray.

 

[Nessism]

Tom MLC seems to have a lot of junkers at the moment...

Stupid me, I trashed a 1000 head a few months ago because it needed guides and some minor welding work to repair a valve cover boss. Kicking myself now.

 

[Footy.]

I found when using the Neway cutters, that you get better control if you use a long socket on a 3/8" speed brace to drive the cutter. You have better control in avoiding side force, and you can continuously rotate rather than the stop and go of the tee handle drive. This helps avoid chatter.

Footy.

 

[Nessism]

I started messing around with the Neeway cutters last night by cleaning up the 45 degree seat cut. The intakes cut pretty easy but those exhaust seats are HARD. The head I’m working on has decent seat definition so the cutter is just cleaning up what's already there, and I’m not worried about removing too much material (particularly on the exhaust side). This head has water damage so the seats have some corrosion pitting, which I'm struggling to remove on the exhaust seats. I'm down to just a random pit here and there so my inclination is to let it be vs. cutting deeper (if anyone has any thoughts on this balancing act please share). And using a deep socket drive sounds like a good idea; one of the reasons I'm hesitent to keep cutting those exhaust seats is because of fear of going out of round from side loads on the cutter.

Earlier yesterday I took my valves to a machine shop to get them cleaned up. The shop has a nifty centerless grinder that did a fabulous job dressing the valves and squaring the ends. The owner charged me all of $24 which was quite a deal I thought.

At any rate, after messing around with these cutters I'm glad I ordered them. Figured out I need a smaller 75 degree cutter for the exhaust side so going to order that today.

Good fun.