Paper-ing my Stator: Or... Electricity confuses me

[posplayr]

Order a sh775 Polaris series r/r znd replace it at the same time. It will be the last time you need to change stators. Oh and yes the 5k rpm leg to ground is confirming the one low leg to leg vac measurement. The stator is still partially functional but has at least one "leg" in the grave.
You can see that given the low resistances that you are measuring shy the standard test methods using an ohm meter are ineffective.

 

[Roostabunny]

Order a sh775 Polaris series r/r znd replace it at the same time. It will be the last time you need to change stators. Oh and yes the 5k rpm leg to ground is confirming the one low leg to leg vac measurement. The stator is still partially functional but has at least one "leg" in the grave

Thank you sir!

The R/R is already "new". Replaced it last year or the year before, which is when I also bought the stator I've got. Since the R/R fixed the problem I had at the time (whacked out charging voltages) I just held on to the stator for a rainy day.

And now it's raining...



Off I go, then.

 

[posplayr]

Thank you sir!

The R/R is already "new". Replaced it last year or the year before, which is when I also bought the stator I've got. Since the R/R fixed the problem I had at the time (whacked out charging voltages) I just held on to the stator for a rainy day.

And now it's raining...



Off I go, then.

If the new r/r is not a series model it is likely you will burn out the new stator. A new shunt r/r is just as destructive as an old one.

 

[Roostabunny]

If the new r/r is not a series model it is likely you will burn out the new stator. A new shunt r/r is just as destructive as an old one.

Hmmm. Can I tell by looking at it?

 

[Roostabunny]

These are the pics I took at the time, if this helps us ID what type this is.

 

[posplayr]

It looks like any number of shunt models, and like none of the three series models I have seen. The sh775 can be had for $70 and well worth that.

 

[tom203]

If the R/R you are using is the one pictured with the ground eyelet in your hand , be afraid- it's way too small (poor heat dissapation) and if it gets fried/overloaded by your new stator, it might take the stator out too for revenge. Honestly, the series SH775 R/R will let your new stator run cooler- for $70 it just might save you from further charging system repairs.

 

[Roostabunny]

If the R/R you are using is the one pictured with the ground eyelet in your hand , be afraid- it's way too small (poor heat dissapation) and if it gets fried/overloaded by your new stator, it might take the stator out too for revenge. Honestly, the series SH775 R/R will let your new stator run cooler- for $70 it just might save you from further charging system repairs.

I'm sold, fellas, can you point me to a supplier? Or did I miss it in the stator papers reading?

Edit: And am I reading you right, the "shunt" you refer to is the main problem (and most common root cause of failure) with these charging systems? And the "series" R/R does it right?

 

[posplayr]

I'm sold, fellas, can you point me to a supplier? Or did I miss it in the stator papers reading?

Edit: And am I reading you right, the "shunt" you refer to is the main problem (and most common root cause of failure) with these charging systems? And the "series" R/R does it right?

Yes you did miss it.

http://www.cyclepartswarehouse.com/...s&mfg=Polaris&mfg1=Polaris&partnumber=4012941

 

[tom203]

".. online Prices I saw ranged from low of $55 ( but $20 fedex shipping) to "normal retail" of $78. Polaris part #4012941 with part labelled "regulator-3 phase,35A,Series,105C" noticeably heavier than typical Shindengen but mounting bolt spacing is same ."

If you got in Polaris dealer nearby, try them - the list price seems to be $78, so considering shipping,you might get it cheaper if you pick up locally. I suspect this is not a stocked item- likely comes from Polaris warehouse, so even if you find a better online price, you have to wait.

 

[Roostabunny]

Yes you did miss it.

http://www.cyclepartswarehouse.com/...s&mfg=Polaris&mfg1=Polaris&partnumber=4012941

Good deal - sorry about that.

**** skip this section unless you want to hear about the stupid mechanical mistake I made and fixed ************************

OK, got the cover back on and I'm just now recovering from the panic attack I had when I heard the rubbing/whining sound that came from the stator area when I started the bike up.

The cover had required some coaxing going on, but it always does, and I hadn't used any tools so I thought I was OK. Until I started it up (it started without protest) and heard the noise. Obviously something was rubbing the flywheel, and I paused for a minute to wonder if maybe stators were supposed to fit so close that they needed to "wear in".

Then I decided that was a stupid idea, and shut the bike off.

Removed the cover again, and didn't see anything alarming on first inspection. So I was relieved, but only that I hadn't destroyed it YET. Full removal of the cover and closer inspection revealed a wear mark on the long metal bracket that holds down the stator wires where they come off the coils. Then I saw what had happened.

In a riot of false economy, I had used the same low-powered impact wrench to reassemble the interior of the cover that I'd used to disassemble it - and while I wasn't crazy enough to use the thing to snug up the screws that held the stator itself, the bracket screw I was less cautious about. I'd missed the little grove it was supposed to slide into, and it had bent toward the flywheel, just barely making contact and creating that gut-wrenching noise.

Bracket straightened, more gingerly re-installed in the cover, cover re-installed and snugged up, and now no abnormal noises. And lesson learned about when NOT to use a power tool.

*********************************** end story of stupid mistake ******************************************

Mow, back to electricity...


I didn't get quite the readings I expected

Passive resistance
Leg-->Leg PASS
1
1
1

Leg-->ground PASS
L
L
L

VAC at 5K RPM

Leg-->Leg PASS
80
80
80

Leg-->ground What the?
40
40
40


Gotta head out with the fam for a couple of hours - lemme know what you think when you have a chance - thanks!

 

[posplayr]

Good deal - sorry about that.

**** skip this section unless you want to hear about the stupid mechanical mistake I made and fixed ************************

OK, got the cover back on and I'm just now recovering from the panic attack I had when I heard the rubbing/whining sound that came from the stator area when I started the bike up.

The cover had required some coaxing going on, but it always does, and I hadn't used any tools so I thought I was OK. Until I started it up (it started without protest) and heard the noise. Obviously something was rubbing the flywheel, and I paused for a minute to wonder if maybe stators were supposed to fit so close that they needed to "wear in".

Then I decided that was a stupid idea, and shut the bike off.

Removed the cover again, and didn't see anything alarming on first inspection. So I was relieved, but only that I hadn't destroyed it YET. Full removal of the cover and closer inspection revealed a wear mark on the long metal bracket that holds down the stator wires where they come off the coils. Then I saw what had happened.

In a riot of false economy, I had used the same low-powered impact wrench to reassemble the interior of the cover that I'd used to disassemble it - and while I wasn't crazy enough to use the thing to snug up the screws that held the stator itself, the bracket screw I was less cautious about. I'd missed the little grove it was supposed to slide into, and it had bent toward the flywheel, just barely making contact and creating that gut-wrenching noise.

Bracket straightened, more gingerly re-installed in the cover, cover re-installed and snugged up, and now no abnormal noises. And lesson learned about when NOT to use a power tool.

*********************************** end story of stupid mistake ******************************************

Mow, back to electricity...


I didn't get quite the readings I expected

Passive resistance
Leg-->Leg PASS
1
1
1

Leg-->ground PASS
L
L
L

VAC at 5K RPM

Leg-->Leg PASS
80
80
80

Leg-->ground What the?
40
40
40


Gotta head out with the fam for a couple of hours - lemme know what you think when you have a chance - thanks!

stator is good it is just shorted to ground some where.

 

[tom203]

stator is good it is just shorted to ground some where.

Yeah, the metal guide bracket might have injured the insulation on magnet wire- likely have to remove and inspect- he'll like this! the fun goes on and on....

 

[robertbarr]

stator is good it is just shorted to ground some where.

What bit of data would lead you to that conclusion?

 

[posplayr]

What bit of data would lead you to that conclusion?

Leg-->ground What the?
40
40
40

 

[robertbarr]

Leg-->ground What the?
40
40
40

It looks like the first two sets are stationary resistance. Leg to leg, and leg to ground. Since he's showing 'L', there's no continuity.

The next set shows voltage with engine @ 5k; 80v leg to leg looks respectable, and nice & even. What's the problem with 40 leg - ground?

 

[Killer2600]

It looks like the first two sets are stationary resistance. Leg to leg, and leg to ground. Since he's showing 'L', there's no continuity.

The next set shows voltage with engine @ 5k; 80v leg to leg looks respectable, and nice & even. What's the problem with 40 leg - ground?

Nothing if the stator is connected to the rectifier/regulator and the rectifier/regulator to the bike. Otherwise he's got an undesired path to ground from the stator.

 

[Roostabunny]

Nothing if the stator is connected to the rectifier/regulator and the rectifier/regulator to the bike. Otherwise he's got an undesired path to ground from the stator.

The stator was not connected to the R/R, actually.

But I thought I was supposed to get no voltage when I connected one lead to a stator leg and the other lead to ground?

Edit - OK, I'm still confused, I might have said exactly what you were saying, Killer2600.

 

[posplayr]

It looks like the first two sets are stationary resistance. Leg to leg, and leg to ground. Since he's showing 'L', there's no continuity.

The next set shows voltage with engine @ 5k; 80v leg to leg looks respectable, and nice & even. What's the problem with 40 leg - ground?

I tend to ignore or heavily discount the ohm meter measurements when there is contrary VAC data. It is hard for a meter to ignore 80VAC, but 1 ohm is a much smaller matter.

The insulation is tested much more using the VAC leg to leg voltage than with 3V applied from a ohm meter.

My preference is to pretty much ignore the ohm meter testing as it might be similar to the testing at 5K RPM but just as easily much different.

 

[Roostabunny]

I just re-inspected - the wires look pristine inside the cover, and I was careful from the get-go to route them correctly. When I boogered the hold-down it was actually putting less pressure on the wires as opposed to more, and from looking at the wear mark on the hold-down I can't imagine that process could have damaged the wires.

Is there something else I can look for to nail this down? Am I even looking for the right thing as I'm inspecting for damage to the stator harness?

Edit: Adding another data point here...

I might need to recharge the battery for this measurement to be valid after 10-12 times cranking the thing today, but...

Battery (engine off): 12.7 VDC
Battery (2500 RPM): 13.4 VDC
Battery (5000 RPM): 13.0 VDC

Not very encouraging, but if it's helpful for diagnostic purposes it'll offset the frustration.

Edit 2: As an aside, that upgraded crimper works like a dream, so at least that went right. And I'm frustrated, but not depressed yet. If this ride weren't my daily driver this twist would probably be a cool adventure.