Please help me understand and select chain and sprockets

[littleroot]

Hi friends,

I could use some help getting up to speed on chains as I am working on my first, TomMLC?s 1980 GS1100E, and the chain is at the end of the adjustment plus the return/lower side can be pulled down about two inches. Unfortunately Tom cannot really tell me much about it right now. It is a bit hard to ask him about this when he is fighting for his life. He did tell me I should take it to a shop and ask the mechanic to let me watch the first time, which is good advice. But of course, as I?ve just learned yesterday, first I have to decide on sprocket and chain so I can have the parts ready for the mechanic.

Monday I went to a my usual aftermarket store Road Rider in San Jose to learn something and the parts guy came out to take a quick look and he saw the rear sprocket has a ?50? stamped on it and my chain was ?probably a 630?. He said if I wanted to go ?stock? with new sprockets the front would be about $16, the rear $50 and the RK chain $89. More shocking was the price of the chain tool at $100(!), which I might use twice if I?m lucky. He said this would be a conversion to ?530?, and all I know is that he said that is a lighter, quieter chain. I forgot to ask but I?m guessing the new sprockets would be specific to the 530. If I go this route I wonder if there is anything else I need?
Last night I removed the front cover and saw on the sprocket is stamped ?18?, so apparently I have an 18 front and a 50 rear. Also if I am right (I counted twice) I have 59 links on my chain. Looking at a chart on Bikecliff?s site I see stock is supposed to be 15-front and 42-rear with a 630-96 chain, so yeah, Tom or the PO did something different here and I need to make a decision on which way to go for me. Looking at the sprocket condition it is not bad, they are not ?hooking? at all as I have seen in some diagrams and the teeth are still a bit flat at the top and not pointy (that is good, right?). So to leave them or change them, I guess is the question I have to answer first.

As this is meant to be a commuter bike I would like the revs to be low in 5th, and from what I can tell the revs on this E with 18/50 do seem a bit lower while in 5th gear at 65 MPH than on my GS1100GL. If I can save money just leaving as-is I am good with that, but just want to understand the options and differences.

Thanks guys.
-Bob

 

[Guest]

If the chain is shot most likely so are the sprockets. This would be the time to do the 530 conversion. 530 front and rear sprocket and chain. Why? One is a reduction of unsprung weight/less rotating mass/better acceleration. Two, 530 sprockets are more plentiful and cheaper. Three 530 chains are more plentiful and can be found most anywhere (John Deere dealer if need be) and much cheaper then the heavy 630 chains.
With the 530 set up you can retain pretty much the stock gear ratio that came with the bike or adjust it to your liking. Z1 Enterprises is a good place to start. They can help you with anything you need.

 

[littleroot]

Thanks MrBill.

OK standard 530 looks the way to go, especially after looking at this chart which indicates the ratio will change from 2.78 to only 2.80, which seems small so not a big difference from what I am using now.

Thanks again

 

[Joe Nardy]

LR,

Start HERE then look at the other links on that page. CALL Z1 if you have further questions. They will hook you up with everything you need with good prices and lightning fast shipping. Specify a clip-type master link if you don't want to mess with a chain tool. Get a rivet type if you have access to a chain tool. The rivet types are much more reliable.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[littleroot]

Joe, Before reading this I sent an email to customer service asking for help. After reading this I realize I need to call them as you suggested!

Thanks

 

[Joe Nardy]

Joe, Before reading this I sent an email to customer service asking for help. After reading this I realize I need to call them as you suggested!

Thanks

I think you will find Z1 extremely helpful....

Joe

 

[salty_monk]

I think you will find Z1 extremely helpful....

Joe

+1 on that. They'll sort you out.

It's not difficult work either, fairly self expanatory. Certainly something you could progress through in a step by step basis with a Clymer & a couple posts here.

 

[littleroot]

Mike Ames and I at Z1 have traded emails and phone tag and I'm awaiting his return call.

He is asking if I am happy with the current gearing and I think I am. I like that currently the revs are lower when riding down the freeway at say 65 MPH when compared to my old. Could be lower but I still want it to pull hard when I'm climbing the mountains So I think I will leave it as is for now. I told Mike my front is 18 and rear is 50.

After talking to RenoBruce on the phone last night - a call which was mostly about our poor suffering friend TomMLC - he said my chain count of 59 is probably really 118 links as I was counting holes in the chain and not the pins. Told you I am a newbie!

As for the Clymer guide, I found the service manual for the GS1100E on BikeCliff's site so I hope that will suffice. Do you think I should also order a Clymer?

So I think the only thing left to worry about is whether I can actually install the chain as I don't have any chain tool. TomMLC said I should take it to a mechanic the first time and ask him to let me watch so I could learn. I guess I could go the "clip" route but it is said here it is not as reliable. I'll ask Z1 for advice on this, too.

Thanks

 

[Guest]

There are advantages and disadvantages with the clip.
The advantages are, it's easy to remove the chain without having to remove swingarm. The disadvantage is the clip link is that is not as strong as the riveted clip, the riveted clip requires a special tool or something to mash down the outside of the pin to hold it in place. Some have used make shift tools instead of the proper tool.

I have 630 chains on both my bikes, had I not found replacement chains when I purchased new chains I would've went with the 530. They're lighter and smoother.

RK Excel America chain info.
http://www.rkexcelamerica.com/street_rk_chain.html

 

[littleroot]

I just spoke with Mike and he walked me through getting the parts in my shopping cart except the rear sprocket which is out of stock. He is going to try to find it for me.

He thinks the chain I have on there is really a 530 because of the 18/50 sprockets I have now.

I will probably go with the clip link this time around just to get my feet wet.

Thanks guys!

 

[Joe Nardy]

I just spoke with Mike and he walked me through getting the parts in my shopping cart except the rear sprocket which is out of stock. He is going to try to find it for me.

He thinks the chain I have on there is really a 530 because of the 18/50 sprockets I have now.

I will probably go with the clip link this time around just to get my feet wet.

Thanks guys!

I agree with the likely 530 chain. I believe the OEM gearing with a 630 chain is 15/42. You need to go with more teeth on the front sprocket with the 530 conversion to keep the diameter similar to the 630 sprocket. The 530 pitch is less than the 630 so 18 teeth is close to the same diameter as a 15 tooth 630 sprocket. Your gearing will be very close to stock (.357) if you do 18/50 (.360).

I would think there would be a GSR member out your way with a chain tool who would help you out. If not, Harbor Freight sells a very cheap chain breaker that can be used to install a rivet-type master link.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[littleroot]

I agree with the likely 530 chain. I believe the OEM gearing with a 630 chain is 15/42. You need to go with more teeth on the front sprocket with the 530 conversion to keep the diameter similar to the 630 sprocket. The 530 pitch is less than the 630 so 18 teeth is close to the same diameter as a 15 tooth 630 sprocket. Your gearing will be very close to stock (.357) if you do 18/50 (.360).

I would think there would be a GSR member out your way with a chain tool who would help you out. If not, Harbor Freight sells a very cheap chain breaker that can be used to install a rivet-type master link.

Thanks,
Joe

I sure like the price of that tool! This is to smash the rivets?

 

[Guest]

I've been using the clip master link ever since I changed out my first chain. Now 4 chains and 32 years later, I have never had one come loose, or come off. One thing I do do is, dab a little silicone over the clip once you have it seated. This not only protects the link but will also prevent it from flying off. Just insurance.

 

[Joe Nardy]

I sure like the price of that tool! This is to smash the rivets?

It is really intended to be used to push the pins out to 'break' the chain. I'm sure it could also be used to press the plate onto a master link (either type) and to peen the pins on a rivet-type link. You might have to be a little creative but I'm sure it could be done.

For what it's worth, I have the Motion Pro Chain Tool which works pretty well. It could be sturdier but it gets the job done.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[Guest]

I've been using the clip master link ever since I changed out my first chain. Now 4 chains and 32 years later, I have never had one come loose, or come off. One thing I do do is, dab a little silicone over the clip once you have it seated. This not only protects the link but will also prevent it from flying off. Just insurance.

Both my bikes have 630 chains, one has the riveted master link and the other has the clip type. I haven't had any problems with either, and that includes all the bikes I've had in the past. Just make sure you get that clip on good and with the open end pointing in the right direction.

 

[Guest]

Both my bikes have 630 chains, one has the riveted master link and the other has the clip type. I haven't had any problems with either, and that includes all the bikes I've had in the past. Just make sure you get that clip on good and with the open end pointing in the right direction.

Yup that is the ticket.

 

[salty_monk]

Paint the clip with bright paint (white) so you can easily see if it's missing & add a smear of silicone.

I use riveted & the same tool as Nardy above. To use the HF chain breaker you'd probably need to put something with a domed surface one side & a flat the other between the pin & the plunger. (You could easily make one out of a bolt or a piece of rod - I could sketch it if you like).

A lot of people use a punch with a rounded end & a hammer, striking onto a metal plate or the side of another large hammer.

 

[littleroot]

Got chain tool

Got chain tool

Last night I ended up in Cycle Gear shop just to get some chain cleaner and lube and ended up coming home with THIS CHAIN TOOL because it was 60% off. They said I could return it if I didn't end up using it. Should I use it? I sent a note back to Mike at Z1 letting him know I got this so we can change the order to the rivet type of chain. My rear sprocket is on backorder so we have some time.

I took a photo of the tool still in the shrink wrap just in case the link breaks eventually. They had it for $34 only through January 2nd apparently but because they left the sign up the sales rep honored the price!



So what do you think?

 

[Joe Nardy]

Last night I ended up in Cycle Gear shop just to get some chain cleaner and lube and ended up coming home with THIS CHAIN TOOL because it was 60% off. They said I could return it if I didn't end up using it. Should I use it? I sent a note back to Mike at Z1 letting him know I got this so we can change the order to the rivet type of chain. My rear sprocket is on backorder so we have some time.

So what do you think?

I have seen this chain tool at Cycle gear and it appears identical to the Motion Pro tool except the case is red instead of blue. I was going to link to it in my previous post but saw it was listed at $89.99. I thought I had seen it for much less at the store or in sales emails. So you got it for around $36? If so, that's a good deal. Be sure to read and understand the directions before using. It can be a bit confusing the first time you use it. Be careful and don't over torque the tool, the threads can strip pretty easily. Also, it is helpful to have a caliper available when pressing the master link plate on and flaring the rivets. I measure the distance between plates and then slowly press the master link plate to the same distance. There is also a spec for how much to flare the rivets. Too much flare and you can crack the rivet and bind the chain, too little and it might pop off. I just did an RK chain on my XR600 and their website had info regarding the flare.

It sounds like a lot of info but is simple once you figure it out.

Thanks,
Joe

 

[littleroot]

I have seen this chain tool at Cycle gear and it appears identical to the Motion Pro tool except the case is red instead of blue. I was going to link to it in my previous post but saw it was listed at $89.99. I thought I had seen it for much less at the store or in sales emails. So you got it for around $36? If so, that's a good deal. Be sure to read and understand the directions before using. It can be a bit confusing the first time you use it. Be careful and don't over torque the tool, the threads can strip pretty easily. Also, it is helpful to have a caliper available when pressing the master link plate on and flaring the rivets. I measure the distance between plates and then slowly press the master link plate to the same distance. There is also a spec for how much to flare the rivets. Too much flare and you can crack the rivet and bind the chain, too little and it might pop off. I just did an RK chain on my XR600 and their website had info regarding the flare.

It sounds like a lot of info but is simple once you figure it out.

Thanks,
Joe

Great advice, thanks Joe! Yes it was I think $34 before tax.