Project Beast GS1000 Your input, please

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Is there an article, thread or link on how to drill the rotors? I've wanted to do that to several of the bikes I've owned, but I'm not about to mess with a working brake system unless I have as much information as possible.

I had a local shop do mine during my restoration. Expensive. 7 years ago $60/ea.
They did a great job though. I had seen an article in Motorcyclist magazine about drilling. It seemed very thorough if you have the tools. I don't know which issue but sometime in early '80's (82 to 84?). I didn't want to try it myself. I didn't have a press anyway.
I asked this shop some questions and they were very similar to the magazine as to how to do the job. They use only cobalt bits for our older rotors. You have to be careful of warping by using too dull a bit or building heat. The holes aren't supposed to be chamfered either as that defeats the "self cleaning" action the sharp edged holes have. A sharp bit won't allow burrs anyway.
You can try later model "slotted" rotors but they don't have the aggressive look of the drilled rotors.
I like mine on my '79 1000E just because of the look. They do shed water better but I never ride in the rain unless I get caught. The holes also help stop squealing but glazing can still happen and the squeal will return somewhat. The holes eliminate galling (because of the self cleaning) , which my rear rotor suffered from. I bought a new rotor back then and after 30,000 miles, no galling. You should still inspect once in awhile in case a piece of metal does get caught and start galling.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Here's my rotors.

 

[txironhead]

Now THERE'S a man who takes pride in his bike. You won't find a cleaner setup even on the new bikes. Very nice polished finish.

I personally prefer the look of the "directional" drilled rotors, but I've always wondered if there was any significant advantage to them versus the type of drilling you had done or if it was more a cosmetic thing.

Hmmm.....$60@, three rotors, $180=more than I can afford to spend. I do, however, have a drill press and easy access to cobalt bits (my brother and nephew are both aircraft mechanics and use them all the time). Anyone got a copy of that article?

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I personally prefer the look of the "directional" drilled rotors, but I've always wondered if there was any significant advantage to them versus the type of drilling you had done or if it was more a cosmetic thing.

I always looked at the pattern I have as directional, like a pin wheel, though you could say it would be a pin wheel in either direction. The shop called it a "3-2" pattern, though it looks like an arch of 5 holes to me.
The idea is to have the holes completely sweep the pad.

 

[drhermanstein]

I always looked at the pattern I have as directional, like a pin wheel, though you could say it would be a pin wheel in either direction. The shop called it a "3-2" pattern, though it looks like an arch of 5 holes to me.
The idea is to have the holes completely sweep the pad.

I saw the five holes in an arc immediately but the 3-2 eluded me for a while. It's like one of those focus-real-hard illusion cartoon pictures and something 3-d shows up

 

[Guest]

Love this thread.

I've noticed in the GS1000 parts search on Ebay there's an outfit somewhere that polishes and drills rotors. You send them the rotor, they do the work. The pictures of their work look nice. Anyone used these guys yet?

Point number two. I'm still mesmerized by pages 74 and 75 of the July 2206 issue of Motorcyclist, the Wes Cooley GS1000 superbike. I can see a least one gusset welded to the frame at the upper shock mount. Does anyone know any sources that could be useful for an amateur looking to brace his ancient steel motorcycle frame? I'm thinking of taking a welding course at a nearby community college, and this seems like a good project.

 

[RobGS850L]

I guess a cheap(?) way to have drilled rotors may be to use the later model ones. My brother in law has a 78 and a 79 GS1000 and my wheels fit his and vice versa. If they interchange on other models maybe a quick fit. Actually I've only tried the front .

 

[txironhead]

Could you post a pic of your front rotors? I'd like to see if they're similar to mine. Which GS's came factory with drilled rotors, or am I looking at GSX or GSXR?

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the input! Some questions for you more experienced people:

I will definately go with aftermarket cams. How does that work? Do I give them my cams to rework, or do I just order the cams? The grind Dan proposes sounds about right to me. I want good midrange to top end power. I don't plan on going 150 mph (too often), but I do want to be able to get to top speed fast. I won't be doing much stop and go traffic riding. Mostly highway and mountain roads, and an occasional all out blast down by the hay fields (I have a nice 2 mile stretch of country road just down the street from me where you can go all out!)

Undercutting the trans. How do you do that? How/where would I buy the gears?

And the crank. Keith had his welded/balanced/polished. Is that all done when it is welded? Is it still $90.00, or is it more? How hard is it to get the crank out?

I suppose if I'm going to do the crank, I might want to consider the tranny work, too.

And the carbs. I am going to try and obtain some VM29's. Keith knows his carbs, and if he says that they are the best set-up for what I want to do to the engine, then I trust that. Plus they are "period correct", and will fit right on without any mods. Who has a nice set that they want to sell me?:lol:

I have two complete 1000 engines. One has 58K on it, the other about 38K. Do I automatically go with the engine with less miles on it? Is there anything I should look for on the two engines that would determine which one to build?

Thanks for the help, you guys!

 

[80GS1000]

Could you post a pic of your front rotors? I'd like to see if they're similar to mine. Which GS's came factory with drilled rotors, or am I looking at GSX or GSXR?

My '80 GS1000E has drilled rotors stock.

 

[80GS1000]

Thanks for the input!

Undercutting the trans. How do you do that? How/where would I buy the gears?

You don't have to buy the gears. You send in your tranny and they machine it for you: http://gszone.biz/trans.html

And the crank. Keith had his welded/balanced/polished. Is that all done when it is welded? Is it still $90.00, or is it more? How hard is it to get the crank out?

Price list, and other crankshaft mods here: http://www.aperaceparts.com/crankwork.html

I personally would farm out the removal of the crankshaft and tranny gears to an experienced mechanic due to the potential of FUBARing something important like the crankcase, but I'm not as mechanically advanced as others here. After you have the parts removed, you can ship them out for machine work and have your mechanic reinstall them. More info on the removal process here: http://www.dansmc.com/split_crankcase.htm

And the carbs. I am going to try and obtain some VM29's. Keith knows his carbs, and if he says that they are the best set-up for what I want to do to the engine, then I trust that. Plus they are "period correct", and will fit right on without any mods. Who has a nice set that they want to sell me?:lol:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/29MM...ryZ35595QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hope this helps. Keep us updated on your progress.

 

[Guest]

Those 29's in that ebay listing don't look right. Anybody?

 

[Dan Ruddock]

On the cams you send your cores to web and they hard weld the lobes for more lift and they maintain a stock base circle. Lift is your friend and the GS two valve engine needs more of it with only about .318". More lift will put the 38mm intake valve closer to it's sweet spot. A 38mm valve GS head will keep gaining CFM when the lift is above the stock lift number. Pro stock engines run over .500" lift. Dan

 

[80GS1000]

Those 29's in that ebay listing don't look right. Anybody?

What doesn't look right about them? Another set here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Miku...ryZ35597QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Guest]

What doesn't look right about them? Another set here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Miku...ryZ35597QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Maybe it's just the angle of the pics... they are definitely corroded and dirty.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

The second set of carbs posted look cleaner. Anyones guess about the inside. Ask questions is all I can say.
It's just not easy to find good smoothbores. Not all the parts are available if you need them. The preferred slide cut-away changes with the level of mods I'm told. Things like the paper gasket for the slide are often over-looked. Because these carbs are typically used on modded bikes, a high percentage of them have also had butchers working on them and swapping things around. I'm not saying you can't find a decent set, but you have to inspect them or ask questions and hope any worn parts can be replaced.
As for the crank and costs, I told V&H I wanted the crank welded and I wanted the bearings replaced if there was any doubt I wouldn't get another 100,000 miles out of them. V&H sent mine out to a shop on the east coast. I didn't get their name. Falicon, 7 years ago, wanted $1,400. The east coast shop that the local V&H recommended wanted $750. It came back with all new bearings, welded, balanced and when the V&H owner showed it to me, sure enough, the whole thing had been polished.
I also had the clutch basket welded and heavier damper springs installed. The 1000 clutch basket is subject to rattle and I think welding the basket is necessary, especially on a modded engine. V&H sent mine out to a local shop and the cost was $250.
As for your question about which engine to use, it wouldn't necessarily matter if one has 38K and the other 58K. It depends on what kind of miles it was and if the bike was tuned correctly, oil changed, etc. Compression tests on each may answer the question. Lot of parts to inspect if you take them apart.

 

[RobGS850L]

If the bearings are roller bearings wouldn't they be press fit? If they are press fit why would the bearing surfaces need to be polished? I can understand getting a smoth and clean surface for the bearings to fit but if the bearings are on already how would one know if they are polished? Besides I thought micropolishing was for the shell type bearings.
Sorry for the huge Q and A but my curiosity is killing me.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I never said the bearing surfaces were polished. Maybe I shouldn't have said "the whole thing was polished".
What I meant was, when he took me over to the crank, the rods were literally externally polished. I had very little experience with crank welding, balancing, etc, so I just said "man, it looks good". I had no idea it would come back actually polished. But remembering what V&H had said when it went out, "this guy will rebuild, weld, true/balance and polish the crank". I've never bothered to look it up to see what benefit/reason there is, other than to make it look nice.....like someone is really proud of their work.

 

[RobGS850L]

Actually polishing the rods from a performance standpoint isn't much but for longevity it can have gains. If done properly it will help (if I remember this right) the grain of the rod to go lengthwise so if it wants to break it will want to break lengthwise. Much harder to do. :wink: Also removing any slag is a plus. Cracks tend to develop in those areas. Sorry, not trying to be a smart@$$. I haven't taken a gs crank apart so I was a bit lost.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Actually polishing the rods from a performance standpoint isn't much but for longevity it can have gains. If done properly it will help (if I remember this right) the grain of the rod to go lengthwise so if it wants to break it will want to break lengthwise. Much harder to do. :wink: Also removing any slag is a plus. Cracks tend to develop in those areas. Sorry, not trying to be a smart@$$. I haven't taken a gs crank apart so I was a bit lost.

I never took anything you said as trying to be a smart...
It just made me explain better what was done to my crank.