Q's: Valves, gaskets, gauges, torque wrenches

[Ricko19]

Hi guys,

this novice is about to tackle the valve clearances on his recently aquired steed in the very near future (16V). Having never opened or been inside any engine I'm extemely nervous, but everyone on here says its simple so I'll give it a go! Have a few basic questions though:

Feeler gauges: I need to buy a set with the correct incriments - which are best for this job - Short stubby ones or longer flexible ones like you see pics of in the workshop manual? I thought offset ones would be even better but can't find any metric ones down here to fit. I imagine its pretty cramped in there! Also, some people have mentioned you need 2 sets of gauges to do the job - why?

Gaskets: will be replacing whats on there with an OEM gasket, so no gasket sealer right? I've also never replaced/removed a gasket before so am equally nervous about this! Just hope the one thats on there comes off easily!

Will also be doing the sump gasket at the same time to clean and inspect the strainer etc, change oil. Is this gasket also a 'no sealer' gasket? Any special tips for that particular one?

And speaking of oil, I have a new bottle left over from a previous bike. Its Motul 3100 Gold 4T Technosynthese 15w50 API SL MA Would this be ok for the 1980 750ET? Its quite warm year round where I live, probably much like southern California?


Torquing bolts: The valve cover bolts, sump bolts and many others have low torque values (somewhere between 6 - 8 ft lbs from memory) and my torque wrench and most others I've seen only start at 10 ft lbs. How important is it to get these gasket bolts torqued exactly right? I can't afford to buy a smaller torque wrench. Do you just guesstimate? Torque them to 10 then back them off a bit? Any tip appreciated

Thanks guys

 

[TheCafeKid]

Howdy! Glad to see another getting ready to dive in! These are all good questions.

First, on the feeler gauges. With the 16v motors, You can really get away with just ONE size of feeler gauge, if you go with the angled "tappet" adjuster type (i dunno what their technical name is) they are MUCH easier to get in there, and more accurate *I* think, because you dont have any drag from the valve spring cap throwing your "feel" off. They are cheap as well, both types. Since you have the ability to adjust either way on the 16v design, the one gauge will be good, whichever size you decide to go with within the specified range. I personaly go with the largest of the spec limit. Makes for a lil louder top end, but i know they are good to go for a while. You'll also need a 9mm wrench (unless someone has installed newer adjusters, then you might need an 8mm) and either buy the adjusting tool, or devise one of your own using a finish head (square bit) screw of the appropriate size driven into a wooden dowel. Works just fine. I think BassCliff has a tutorial on both doing this and making the tool on his site.

Ive never installed any of the gaskets for the common covers with anything but a little oil coating to help keep them from baking on to the surface (makes it a lil easier to get them clean later) DONT use any gasket goop, is the common response on here. DO make sure you get both mating surfaces CLEAN and smooth, and avoid gouging. This will obviously promote good seal.

Torque wrenches are handy! Ive found a few that will go as low as necessary on some of these covers that use pretty low torques, but they can sometimes be hard to find. Now, when i started wrenching on GSs, it was a little while before i broke down and bought a torque wrench. After I did, and started torquing things properly, I was amazed at how OVER tight i had been tightening things..kinda scary really. IMO, if your wrench goes to 10, you SHOULD be ok, its only a pound or two over what is suggested, and I KNOW ive done worse than that before. Keep in mind however that MOST torque wrenches can be somewhat inaccurate at the extreme ends of their scale. I would say to try and find one that does in/lbs but that may be impossible or at least very tough in your neck of the world. Just use common sense, and you should be ok. Gorilla tight isnt necessary.

Hope this helps, some of the other guys will probably have more tips as well...GOOD LUCK!

 

[rapidray]

Just so you know, a torque wrench is NOT accurate at either extreme end of it's scale! Valve cover bolts only require 7-8 ft lbs of torque. 10 lbs can strip the threads or even break bolts! If you don't have an INCH lb torque wrench, don't do any parts that are critical on torque. For instance, the cam cap bolts or the clutch spring bolts. The clutch spring bolts I've seen strip with LESS than 100 INCH lbs of torque! Get a SHOP manual for your bike & save to get an inch pound torque wrench. Welcome to the site! Ray.

 

[Ricko19]

Thanks for the replies guys I didn't know they were so inaccurate at each end of the scale!

My torque wrench is actually in inch pounds and m kg, but I thought talking in foot pounds would be easier for everyone over there Its lowest setting is 120 inch pounds which is 10 foot pounds - i think!

I won't be delving too much into the motor itself except for basic jobs like valve clearences - I will leave the rest to the experts! So for those jobs I listed - valve adjusters, valve cover and sump cover, would it be ok for them?

I do have a factory workshop manual for all the torque settings, but its not terribly good at explaining things for newbies.

Any opinions about the oil I listed?

cheers

 

[Ricko19]

Howdy! Glad to see another getting ready to dive in! These are all good questions.


Torque wrenches are handy! Ive found a few that will go as low as necessary on some of these covers that use pretty low torques, but they can sometimes be hard to find. Now, when i started wrenching on GSs, it was a little while before i broke down and bought a torque wrench. After I did, and started torquing things properly, I was amazed at how OVER tight i had been tightening things..kinda scary really. IMO, if your wrench goes to 10, you SHOULD be ok, its only a pound or two over what is suggested, and I KNOW ive done worse than that before. Keep in mind however that MOST torque wrenches can be somewhat inaccurate at the extreme ends of their scale. I would say to try and find one that does in/lbs but that may be impossible or at least very tough in your neck of the world. Just use common sense, and you should be ok. Gorilla tight isnt necessary.

I too was very supprised at how little force was needed for the correct amount of torque! I too am guilty of way over tightening things. I Try and use the torque wrench for almost everything now

 

[bwringer]

Don't use that torque wrench on your valve cover bolts, or your next post will be asking how to fix a cracked valve cover and/or remove broken bolts.

Get a 10mm nut driver -- basically a screwdriver handle with a 10mm tip. Use that to tighten the bolts with one hand. That will be about the right amount of torque, especially if your hands are a bit oily.

You can't reach the inner bolts with this, but it'll give you an idea of where you need to be.

 

[Steve]

Yep, I, too, have always heard about the innaccuracy at the extremes. With the information I was given, I would not trust your wrench at torques under 25 or 30 foot-pounds. If the upper limit of that wrench is 100, I would not trust it over 75 or 80.

I like bwringer's oily driver idea, that does put just about the right amount of torque to it. I was also among the enlightened when I got a torque wrench. Once I found out that I had also been over-tightening stuff, I used the torque wrenches until I got a better feel for what was "right". I still use a torque wrench for critical stuff, but use my newly-calibrated fingers a lot more.

.

 

[pdqford]

Feeler gauges: I need to buy a set with the correct incriments - which are best for this job

I bought an extra set of feeler gauges ( which were marked in both inches and metric). They were held together with a small screw and nut. I took them a part and removed the .004" and .005" feelers. Ran them against the grinder to narrow the tip so that it was about 1/4" wide so it would not contact the valve spring when inserted in the valve lash, and then bent the tip to about a 45 degree angle. I set the valve lash so that the .004" gauge would just slid in the gap but the .005 wouldn't. (This is on a GS750 16valve).

I also took a tap-con that requires a square bit. The tap-con head fits the valve adjuster perfectly. Ground the threads down on the tap-con and drove it into a small socket and used that to hold the adjuster while I tightened the lock nut of the adjuster with an open-end wrench.

Hope that is useful . . . .

 

[woodsietx]

Great tips everyone. Thanks.

I've been pricing torque wrenches. Big range. Would everyone say a 1/4" drive is enough for these bikes? The wrench is much smaller as well.

Are Harbor Freight tools any good?

What is a tap-con?

Kudos to you, Rick019. I'm in the same situation as you. I want to do as much of my own work as possible but have no tools. I bought two tappet feeler gauges and some other stuff from Z1 Enterprises when i bought my new petcock. Picked up a screwdriver impact tool last night. Last week I got a set of metric sockets and combo wrenches from Sears. Still didn't get a socket big enough for the oil drain plug though.

This web site is becoming my version of crack abuse! :lol:

Woodsie

 

[TheCafeKid]

Great tips everyone. Thanks.

I've been pricing torque wrenches. Big range. Would everyone say a 1/4" drive is enough for these bikes? The wrench is much smaller as well.

Are Harbor Freight tools any good?

What is a tap-con?

Kudos to you, Rick019. I'm in the same situation as you. I want to do as much of my own work as possible but have no tools. I bought two tappet feeler gauges and some other stuff from Z1 Enterprises when i bought my new petcock. Picked up a screwdriver impact tool last night. Last week I got a set of metric sockets and combo wrenches from Sears. Still didn't get a socket big enough for the oil drain plug though.

This web site is becoming my version of crack abuse! :lol:

Woodsie

Id go with a 3/8 drive ratchet and socket set over a 1/4 myself. 1/4 drive would be a little small for a lot of applications, just not enough leverage i dont think. I have 1/4 drive for little stuff like case cover bolts and the like, but for almost everything else i use 3/8 drive. 90% of the time.

 

[Ricko19]

Thank you everyone for the great info and advice. Will be more than enough to get me out of trouble - for the time being anyway!

Thank you pdqford for your advice, but I have to admit I have NO idea what you are taking about! I am a total mechanical newbie and am still very much learning - i have no idea what a tap-con is either by the way

woodsietx you journey sounds very like mine including the tool purchases :lol: we are getting there slowly! Couldn't ask for a better site for friendly advice and knowhow.

 

[pdqford]

Thank you pdqford for your advice, but I have to admit I have NO idea what you are taking about!

Think of a short deck screw, but instead of one that requires a philips bit, use one that requires a square bit. The square 'hole' in the top of the screw fits the square valve adjuster on the 16 valve engine.

I just tapped the screw into a small 1/4" drive socket so that it fit tightly in the socket. Now you have a socket that has a small square 'hole' that just fits on the valve adjuster to hold it while you use an open-end wrench to tighten the valve adjuster's lock nut.

(Of course, if your engine uses valve shims, you probably still don't know what I'm talking about )

 

[Ricko19]

Aha! now I get you. I have the same bike as you, 1980ET, and that sounds like a great idea. I'll have to rig something like that up before I start on it. Thanks for explaining it to me

 

[sparki]

suzuki tool cost me maybe ?3 i think.... best tool i bought for quite some time

 

[lurch12_2000]

Thank you everyone for the great info and advice. Will be more than enough to get me out of trouble - for the time being anyway!

Thank you pdqford for your advice, but I have to admit I have NO idea what you are taking about! I am a total mechanical newbie and am still very much learning - i have no idea what a tap-con is either by the way

woodsietx you journey sounds very like mine including the tool purchases we are getting there slowly! Couldn't ask for a better site for friendly advice and knowhow.

I've suggested this before if you don't have a torque wrench:

A torque wrench is probably necessary for a lot of jobs, but you can use my method of holding the ratchet to apply the correct pull:
1 finger for under 2 lbs
2 fingers for 2-5 lbs
3 fingers for 5-10 lbs
4 fingers for up to 30 lbs
whole fist and arm for up to 60 lbs
all of the above plus 3 foot bar for over 60 lbs

note: use your stronger arm (for me it's the right) and when I say one finger, just pull/flex with the finger itself and not using the whole hand behind it!!!...you'll have to convert to metric for you foreigners

now for the age factor:
if you're over 70 yrs old, adjust all settings above by adding one finger to each and a 4 ft bar
over 80 yrs, 2 fingers and a 5 ft bar,
over 90 yrs let someone else do the work

 

[Ricko19]

Thanks Lurch Thats great rule of thumb advice for newbies with no mechanical experience like me!

Will employ that one on the valve cover and sump plate :dancing:

 

[Guest]

Think of a short deck screw, but instead of one that requires a philips bit, use one that requires a square bit. The square 'hole' in the top of the screw fits the square valve adjuster on the 16 valve engine.

I think they are also known as Robertson screws......to make it easier to find at the hardware store.

I too set the clearance so that .004 slides through, but not .005......IMHO, if the gap is wide enough to accept the .005 gauge, the clearance is actually larger than spec, though some folks have a different interpretation & it's probably not that critical.
Ricko, Bass Cliff has all the info in a very easy to understand format.
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

Tony.

 

[woodsietx]

I think they are also known as Robertson screws......to make it easier to find at the hardware store.

Tony.

Thanks for the picture. I've read the notes on BassCliff's site and did not understand how his home made tool worked until I saw this picture. I plan to lean heavily on that set of instructions when I finally get to the valves.

Woodsie