Really bad news, need guidance [Driveshaft/clutch/transmission] (82 GS1100GK)

[Vexarana]

Well, I have progress on my bike and have some things on order. However it looks like I won't be needing those parts anyways.

But I've reached a road-block and need help.

Basically, bought the bike a long time ago, rode it without thinking about maintenance or anything, then it was driving and I heard a loud pop and lost power to the rear wheel. It shifted fine but any attempt to put power to the rear wheel resulted in an awful grinding noise which I thought to be emanating from the clutch / transmission area (right at the top of the drivetrain). Based on the advice of members here, I was told it was likely the splines in the final drive unit at the rear wheel and it was just vibrating the whole way up.

Well, I have photos now.

http://imgur.com/a/eqikl

The first photo is where I am at now. Rear wheel is dropped. Final drive unit works fine.

The second photo is a close-up of the end of the propeller shaft. I couldn't quite get my phone to focus up close.. but the splines are not stripped. Which is bad news. Because that means it is further up. I tried to get the driveshaft to drop out but it seems to be attached further up.

How do I get past the swingarm/subframe into the boot where the propeller shaft is attached to the transmission so I can see what is going on in there? In the first photo, basically I am trying to get RIGHT behind the metal part on the strap.

It's been real fun wrenching on this thing, but I really only feel like wrenching on this thing for maybe another week or two before it goes to the scrap yard so I'm really hoping for some "oh well if it isn't X then it is Y" news. On the other hand.. if anyone is needing spare parts for an 1100GK (what used to be) there may be some coming on the market just to try and recoup some of this stupid cost.

 

[Steve]

Those are not the splines you need to check.

Look at the rear wheel. You will see the splines where it slides into the final drive.
They will LOOK just fine, but go a bit deeper, look about 1/8" past that front edge.
Even better, remove the six bolts that hold the keepers, slide the splines out of the wheel, you will see the problem.

Download THIS TUTORIAL and look at the bottom of page 12.

.

 

[Vexarana]

How do I get the final drive assembly off the rear wheel? I took a look and it looks like bolts on the side with the caliper. Is that right?

Edit: Also, what is that part called? Or possible P/N? Having trouble finding a possible replacement one if this ends up being the issue. And thank you Steve for the guidance!

 

[chuck hahn]

Once the rear wheel is off youll see that there are bolts around the hub ( pumpkin ) perimeter. Take them out. And youll see two tapped holes directly across from each other along the perimeter. Get two bolts that thread in and separate the halves by turning in each bolt a little and slowly separating the halves.

Then you can see everything in there. I suggest you replace the seals and the big oring that seals the two halves so oil doesn't seep when reassembled.

 

[Vexarana]

Thanks for the guidance chuck. It ended up just lifting off as I had already removed all the bolts. Doh!

Below is another album of photos. I looked at the picture on page 12 which Steve suggested up above and the teeth don't look worn out like those photos. But I may not have a good idea of what they're supposed to look like. Album below!

Note: When I had the rear wheel off the bike, I was able to turn the final drive unit and everything was rotating smoothly. I checked out the gears and did not see them hiccup at all. But I was rotating them very slowly, and obviously not under the torque and power of an 1100cc engine.

http://imgur.com/a/eGgyK

 

[chuck hahn]

It may be turning smoothly because all the bevel gears teeth aren sheared..youll need to pull it to see. Unbolt the flange at the back of the tranny and grip the drive shaft with some vice grips. Smack the vice grips to drive the assembly out of the tranny. Youll see the worm gears and orings and such..probably a steel shim plate as well.

To get to the drive shaft, youll need to remove the swing arm...loosen the two pivots out and it should slide right back.

 

[bwringer]

Thanks for the guidance chuck. It ended up just lifting off as I had already removed all the bolts. Doh!

Below is another album of photos. I looked at the picture on page 12 which Steve suggested up above and the teeth don't look worn out like those photos. But I may not have a good idea of what they're supposed to look like. Album below!

Note: When I had the rear wheel off the bike, I was able to turn the final drive unit and everything was rotating smoothly. I checked out the gears and did not see them hiccup at all. But I was rotating them very slowly, and obviously not under the torque and power of an 1100cc engine.

http://imgur.com/a/eGgyK

Clean some of the grease and debris out of the spline unit in the wheel so we can see the spline teeth. If there are bits of metal in the grease, then you have your answer. Careful -- these can be sharp.

That's one of the soft gold colored spline units, so it WILL fail, and you need to replace it anyway. It's about $140-$150 from Suzuki (if you buy a new one, it's a new part number that has been properly hardened.) You might be able to find a silver driven spline in good shape a bit cheaper from a later Suzuki shaftie (this part is still used on the 800cc cruiser), or by buying a rear wheel on fleaBay. The earlier black spline units from the 79-80 models are good as well, but these are getting hard to find.

I'm about 90% certain that one has failed -- what looks like teeth is just grease and gunk, and the outer bit of the spline teeth that remains after it strips out.

 

[Vexarana]

It may be turning smoothly because all the bevel gears teeth aren sheared..youll need to pull it to see. Unbolt the flange at the back of the tranny and grip the drive shaft with some vice grips. Smack the vice grips to drive the assembly out of the tranny. Youll see the worm gears and orings and such..probably a steel shim plate as well.

To get to the drive shaft, youll need to remove the swing arm...loosen the two pivots out and it should slide right back.

Chuck, just to make sure I'm tracking.. the "bevel gears" would be in the rear final drive assembly correct? Or are you talking further up in the transmission? I will do what bwringer said and pull the gear out of the wheel assembly and upload more photos later today.

Bwringer, as far as getting a hardened spline unit, you mean how the gears in the final drive (when you get past the grease) are all gold?

So I need a 79-80 rear wheel or something newer than 83? Or if I find JUST the final drive unit pulled off will that work?

What about this unit? Or would I need the parts that go in the wheel as well?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-80-Suz...Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c35c66f7f&vxp=mtr

 

[rustybronco]

Chuck is talking about the secondary gears in the transmission.

As already suggested, first clean the spines located the rear wheel.

 

[Vexarana]

How do I pull the assembly out? I found this thread:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=215577

And looking at it, it looks like it is just press fit and relies on being bolted together with the axle bolt to hold it in place. But it will not budge! I don't want to throw a pry-bar in there and start breaking anything else. Here is what I have right now as far as the rear wheel:
http://imgur.com/x9SXxNC

 

[GSX1000E]

Here is what a good one looks like...



Remove the retaining bolts and clips and gently pry the unit up and out trying not to destroy the large sealing O-ring that you can probably reuse.

 

[Vexarana]

Thank you for the reference photo GSX!

Good news all, we found the (or should I say 'A') problem!

http://imgur.com/pqGvlhC

Now to find a place to order a new one. Does anyone know the proper P/N for one of these for a GS1100G? OR know where I can find a parts diagram?

EDIT: Also, should I start on chuck's route and start dropping the swingarm to check the driveshaft? Or fix this, then see if it goes again?
Editedit: Found this diagram on PartsZilla but um... it doesn't look like the same thing. Am I crazy? http://www.partzilla.com/parts/sear...PROPELLER+SHAFT+-+FINAL+DRIVE+GEAR/parts.html

 

[chuck hahn]

6 of one half dozen of the other as far as whether you "should" check the bevel gears as well. Have you put it in gear and twisted the shaft and listened / felt for play, grinding, anything else that feels suspect???

 

[rustybronco]

EDIT: Also, should I start on chuck's route and start dropping the swingarm to check the driveshaft? Or fix this, then see if it goes again?

Are you a glutton for punishment? You find out what is the matter yet you feel the need to tear apart something which, for all intents and purposes, is highly unlikely to have failed at the same time as the rear spline. You'd be better served replacing the ignition coils as they are easier to access.

 

[chuck hahn]

The bevel gears probably are fine Dale..I agree. Thats Why I asked if he had done anything to try and surmise if theres any excess play, wierd sounds etc. Its not that big of a deal pulling the shaft but why if its not needed.

 

[Steve]

Good news all, we found the (or should I say 'A') problem!

http://imgur.com/pqGvlhC

That is a GREAT picture of a dirty part. :clap: :clap:

Now, please clean it off and try again.

Last I checked, we were trying to diagnose a PART, not the GREASE.

.

 

[Vexarana]

Steve, sorry but I'm using a 4 year old phone to take photos. The grease is caked on and wouldn't come off with dish soap or anything else. But the TOP of the splines are present, the rest are not. Definitely in line with the other threads I have found where they had the same issue.

I will check for play with the shaft before tearing into anything else if that is not a weak point. The only reason I asked if I should continue tearing into everything is because.. well I've already got everything torn out. Better to have to take two more things off than to put it back together and have to take it all out!

Edit: Dropped it into first gear, grabbed the drive-shaft, it moved MAYBE 5 degrees before stopping. Is that acceptable? Also Dawn Of The Planet Of The Apes is an awesome movie. I will continue the search for a replacement gear thingamajig.

Edit2: Think I found it! http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/1982-suzuki-gs1100gk-rear-wheel/o/m21373sch281780 Part number 14: JOINT ASSY RR H. Bike Bandit P/N: 1111734. Just wanted to check before pulling the trigger on $150. Let me know, thank you all so much!

 

[GSX1000E]

Number 14 here: http://www.partsoutlaw.com/oemparts/a/suz/50d4049ef8700230d8b4eded/rear-wheel
I used the '83 parts fiche just in case to make sure that you get the good splines. Check to see if the '82 part has the same part number just to be certain though.

 

[chuck hahn]

Get a small bucket and some gasoline. Soak it about half an hr and then get after it with a parts brush or some old tooth brushes. Then final clean with the dish soap.

 

[Vexarana]

GSX thanks for the link! It was cheaper than the ones I found, AND I stacked a discount code for another 10%.

Chuck, here is a better photo for you and Steve. I might not know what the part is called but I can definitely tell that it's FUBAR. http://i.imgur.com/49JmVnc.jpg