Rear Piggyback Shocks

[firemun59]

Gentlemen,

Let me introduce myself and in the process of doing so put a thought forward for you all to consider. I am a regular member over at www.cb1100f.net a site dedicated to the 750,900 and 1100F supersport Hondas. Please hold back your boos. I know this is a Suzuki site however our common ground is maintaining and resurecting the classic performance bikes of yesteryear. I have been working with several engineers from several locals in North America and in Europe to develop a great piggyback reservoir shock for the honda supersports (I own an '83 CB1100F). We have recently done that and have been selling them to our forum members who are all very pleased. My point here is that I am not as knowledgable about Suzukis as I am about Hondas and would like to gather information here from board members to develop a similar product for the mighty GS Suzukis.

I will be asking many question to all you GS tech types out there. Thanks for reading my little monologue here.


I am showing off one of our wares (in the following picture)This is not a commercial advertising post I am on a fact finding mission only.

Thanks guys......

 

[Hap Call]

Gentlemen,

Let me introduce myself and in the process of doing so put a thought forward for you all to consider. I am a regular member over at www.cb1100f.net a site dedicated to the 750,900 and 1100F supersport Hondas. Please hold back your boos. I know this is a Suzuki site however our common ground is maintaining and resurecting the classic performance bikes of yesteryear. I have been working with several engineers from several locals in North America and in Europe to develop a great piggyback reservoir shock for the honda supersports (I own an '83 CB1100F). We have recently done that and have been selling them to our forum members who are all very pleased. My point here is that I am not as knowledgable about Suzukis as I am about Hondas and would like to gather information here from board members to develop a similar product for the mighty GS Suzukis.

I will be asking many question to all you GS tech types out there. Thanks for reading my little monologue here.


I am showing off one of our wares (in the following picture)This is not a commercial advertising post I am on a fact finding mission only.

Thanks guys......

Welcome to the GS Resources. I've spent time over on your site and find it to be a very nice forum. I also feel the DOHC Honda Supersports are the best looking bikes from the late '70's and early '80's, especially the red/white CB1100F. I had a housemate who owned a CB750F (Black) and we often tore up the roads of Southeast Texas/Southwest Louisiana switching out bikes many times.

Hap

 

[Nerobro]

Well lets get down to the nitty gritty.

You'll need to produce two versions for suzukis. Some bikes have cleavises and some have stud mounts.

What kind of valving do you have in the shocks? Are they adjustable? when I talk about valving.. do you have seperate high and low speed circuts? how about seperate compression and rebound damping settings? What springs are available?

 

[first timer]

currently we usally have 4 type of shock guys the low grade, low mid grade, mid grade and and high end, most of the time shock decisions come down to price.

Most of us here would love some ohlin's or work's shocks but they are usally a little to rich for our blood,

so most people who want so adjustability go with the ikon shock (which are the old koni 7610 shock now made in austriallia) these shock seem real nice, you can get them built to spec, and have rebound and preload adjustment and are fully rebuildable all for under 400 bucks.

next would be the guys who get the progressive shocks they give you preload adjustment and you can pick your spring weight, they are not rebuildable and do not have rebound adjustment. these guys want a little bit of custom settings but don't really care to much. they are about 100 bucks cheaper then the ikons. and are good enough for most people.

last but not least there has been some discussion about MDI shocks which seem to cost around 100 bucks and seem ok, they are better then 25 year old tires shocks and get the job done.

ultimatly i think lots of people would love to have some piggy back gas charged fully adjustable/ rebuildable shocks for under 500 bucks. but i know it takes money for r and d and then the labor and materials...

i'll try to help more if i can.

-ryan

 

[Guest]

Those look nice. I might be interested in trying some if the price is right.

 

[firemun59]

Well lets get down to the nitty gritty.

You'll need to produce two versions for suzukis. Some bikes have cleavises and some have stud mounts.

What kind of valving do you have in the shocks? Are they adjustable? when I talk about valving.. do you have seperate high and low speed circuts? how about seperate compression and rebound damping settings? What springs are available?

Lads,

Thanks for the inquiry. Let me answer your questions as best i can in this forum.

1. With respect to the bottom portion of the shockroducing two versions is easy as the bottom portion of these piggybacks are bolt on. This would therefore mean we can custom mold the bottom section for a GS spec shock.

2.This current model is adjustable from a preload standpoint only. To add high/low speed circuitry was felt to be overkill unless it was being used as a hardcore racing piece. To be quite honest unless you are talking about a tenth here and a tenth there on a road course its a tough one to justify.

3. The valving is a system of shims,valve passages and metering components through which the internal oil passes. They will get alot warmer during hard riding. The big advantage of the piggyback shocks is the extra oil as a heat sink which keeps performance more consistant over time.

3. Rebound and compression would be nice however by testing we found spring rate had a more signifigant impact on cornering. I am not saying rebound/compression dampening aren't nice to have but will be offered down the road to those who can appreciate it. Yes - it will add to the price but not as much as one would think. Yes - its in the works - that will likely mean roughly 6-8 months - or less.

4. Springs: The spring availability is unlimited. As the Honda (Vipex Performance)piece was developed the followng crtiteria was used. First, the metallurgy of the factory springs was compared to the Vipex shock and found to be very close (actually better) as there was (is) more nickel in the alloy. For our purposes we developed the shock as a percentage of cross sectional area (the wire, not the coil - obviously) and are offering two springs for the Honda application. A roadrace shock (a plus 20% shock) and a sport tour model (a minus 10% shock). To be honest that was a trial (road test) mark we utilized. Your weight and bike and riding habits will determine which spring will work. Yes - more than 2 springs will be offered.


By the way these are fully rebuildable and offer a 24 month warranty - Ohlin does not.

Once agian I am not sure if my answer is suitable for the forum - please ask as many questiona s you like and as often either by PM or here in the thread.


Why are we doing this and wjho are we?

Riders,engineers,suspension techs and enthusiasts tired of paying through the nose for decent pieces for our vintage bikes.......stay tuned.

 

[paco13]

Those do look nice. Would be interested in a set myself.

 

[firemun59]

currently we usally have 4 type of shock guys the low grade, low mid grade, mid grade and and high end, most of the time shock decisions come down to price.

Most of us here would love some ohlin's or work's shocks but they are usally a little to rich for our blood,

so most people who want so adjustability go with the ikon shock (which are the old koni 7610 shock now made in austriallia) these shock seem real nice, you can get them built to spec, and have rebound and preload adjustment and are fully rebuildable all for under 400 bucks.

next would be the guys who get the progressive shocks they give you preload adjustment and you can pick your spring weight, they are not rebuildable and do not have rebound adjustment. these guys want a little bit of custom settings but don't really care to much. they are about 100 bucks cheaper then the ikons. and are good enough for most people.

last but not least there has been some discussion about MDI shocks which seem to cost around 100 bucks and seem ok, they are better then 25 year old tires shocks and get the job done.

ultimatly i think lots of people would love to have some piggy back gas charged fully adjustable/ rebuildable shocks for under 500 bucks. but i know it takes money for r and d and then the labor and materials...

i'll try to help more if i can.

-ryan

Ryan,

Thank you very much for the input. Ohlins and Works definitely raise the eyebrow when it comes to sticker shock.

These piggybacks are rebuildable and offer preload adjustment, spring choices and for $200 plus shipping offer a 24 month warranty. I would say there is a definite niche for these.

 

[firemun59]

Those do look nice. Would be interested in a set myself.

Thanks Paco......suzuki spec pieces are in the works......I am really here to determine interest.

 

[8trackmind]

No boos here, we're all cut from the same cloth. Old rice is old rice. :-D
Not only am I interested in your shock set up, some of the KZ guys may be as well. The stock GS1100 swingarm (with the clevis mount) is also a popular bolt on swap for the early KZ's. Keep us posted.

 

[firemun59]

No boos here, we're all cut from the same cloth. Old rice is old rice. :-D
Not only am I interested in your shock set up, some of the KZ guys may be as well. The stock GS1100 swingarm (with the clevis mount) is also a popular bolt on swap for the early KZ's. Keep us posted.

Let me throw this one out there. I am aware that kawi and Suzuki big bore bikes have more horsepower potential than Hondas partially due to the roller bearing bottom end on these bikes - the reliability issue. My point being that Suzuki and Kawi spec pieces (shocks) will possibly offer a beefier coil to handle the extrta power. Mind you my 1100F is no slouch......\\/........roadtesting will help determine this.

 

[bonanzadave]

For Sale : New in the box - One set of Progressive series 12s with HD springs - I think Im gonna try something different.....

 

[Tom MLC]

These piggybacks are rebuildable and offer preload adjustment, spring choices and for $200 plus shipping offer a 24 month warranty. I would say there is a definite niche for these.

I would say at that price range you're gonna make a lot of friends here. I almost gag when I see the price of Ohlins. Even used, on ebay. I could do a pair of these on my GS1000E.

 

[firemun59]

I would say at that price range you're gonna make a lot of friends here. I almost gag when I see the price of Ohlins. Even used, on ebay. I could do a pair of these on my GS1000E.

Tom,

We were sick and tired as well......the suzuki spec pieces are in the works.

 

[Nerobro]

"I" am not offended by price discussion. If seperate compression and rebound circuts are 6 months off, any decision of mine is off by that much time as well. *grins* A set of KYB's off a ZRX give me that option.

 

[first timer]

will you be able to adjust the length of the shock for each order? i was able to have the ikon guys go about a 1.5" longer for my shocks (oem is about 12" ) to give me a little more clearance and sharpen up my steering.

 

[firemun59]

sharpened handling

sharpened handling

will you be able to adjust the length of the shock for each order? i was able to have the ikon guys go about a 1.5" longer for my shocks (oem is about 12" ) to give me a little more clearance and sharpen up my steering.

Great idea about the extra length. The stock CB Honda shock is 14.25 inches (center to center) and we specified 15.00 inches and what an incredible difference. You comment of 'sharpening up the steering' is spot on. The first run will be exactly that about 3/4 to 1 inch longer. The stance and apearance of the (suzuki) bike will change (for the better in my opinion) but the improvement in handling without any loss in highspeed stability is dramatic - better........

 

[firemun59]

"I" am not offended by price discussion. If seperate compression and rebound circuts are 6 months off, any decision of mine is off by that much time as well. *grins* A set of KYB's off a ZRX give me that option.

KYB's from a ZRX are a nice option however may be cost prohibitive and quite scarce. New from Kawi they are over $1000. I am assuming your thinking of used ones from a salvage yard. They know what the're worth. In the mean time I will certainly keep you all up to date on the rebound/compression dampening progress.........cheers

 

[doug g]

I would purchase a set for my 1100 and 750E. For the price you state it is completely worth it.

How do we get on board to order a set?

 

[bwringer]

I would be interested in a set for my GS850G.

I have Progressive shocks with the "extra heavy duty" springs. After about nine years of unnatural acts on a shaftie and back road abuse, their damping ability is starting to fade a bit.

Joe and Ryan have been telling me about the IKON shocks ($400+), but if there were a rebuildable alternative in the $200 range, I'd be extremely interested.

The shafties normally use a shock length of 330mm eye-to-eye. And there are some of us who ride them HARD. I'd also be interested in trying them 20mm - 25mm longer. (We'll have no more of this filthy talk in outdated fractional systems of measurement...)

What have the Honda roadracing guys learned regarding forks? There seem to be several brands of reasonably priced fork springs out there. A few GS riders people have installed RaceTech cartridge emulators with good results, but they are quite expensive and installation can be difficult.