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Red or blue loctite for rotor center bolt??

KEITH KRAUSE

KEITH KRAUSE

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I can't believe I can't come up with a unanimous decision. One I can trust.
A local Suzuki mechanic says "the red is too much". My riding buddy down the street thinks red is the only choice. Even a search here doesn't clarify much. I meant to go with my local Vance and Hines mechanic opinion, but wouldn't you know it, he's out of town right now.
The info on the blue bottle does say for "frequently removed, low torque fasteners", which the center bolt certainly doesn't match. I don't have a bottle of the red to see what it says it's for. I imagine for parts not usually disturbed until overhaul time, higher torque fasteners or something like that?
I really want to do this job right. I don't want to use the blue and maybe risk the rotor coming loose, and I don't want to use the red and find the bolt won't come off again in the future if need be.
Anyone have real info on this? I'm sure it will help others too.
 
According to the Loctite website, heat and hand tools are required to break red's bond. I don't think you want that.
There's a stuff called Loctite 277 that "may" require heat and hand tools to break but its for 25mm or larger bolts though. Not sure you want that either.
By default that leaves you with blue.
 
Thanks for the reply. Seems like neither is perfect for this job. I suppose blue would be the choice.
My factory manual says to use "Super thread sealant" 1332 and 1361 on the center bolt and starter clutch bolts. That's 28 year old info and I'm not sure how those part numbers relate to todays types of sealants. The Suzuki dealer says they don't carry or order the above factory recommended sealants anymore.
Any other opinions or knowledge appreciated.
 
Keith, You might want to surf around on the Three Bond web site. They don't have info on the exact part numbers you list; maybe those part numbers have been superceeded. They list various thread lock products and seem to classify them by strength and heat to some extent. The rotor is a high torque part and operates in a high temp environment. My guess is that red is more appropriate for that envinroment but even at that, it's not ideal; I think you want a high temp, medium strength locker. If it were me I'd use red but only use a little. Make sure you completely degrease the parts in question or the locker won't stick as well.

Good luck.

http://www.threebond.com/Products.html
 
bro you helped me so i want to try to help you. in the case of rotors and starter clutches i have some experience. in short i'd say use the blue. clean the bolt, the beveled end of the crank and the inside of the rotor very well. i used paint thinner. put that bolt on good and tight. i wrapped a tie-down strap around the rotor connected to the foot peg to keep it from turning when removing and tightening the rotor bolt. the whole operation was very physical, lots of grunting and cussing. you want to be able to remove that bolt because that starter clutch is kindof a problem area sometimes. it took me a couple tries to get it right. (ask the guys who helped me push start at the "road closed rally".) one mo' thing - if the rotor spins on the crank at first don't tear it back apart right away. believe it or not, it might set up after a couple days.
 
Thanks. I do appreciate the opinions.
Sure wish I could come up with an answer. I've read too many horror stories about this subject and I don't wish to be a contributor to that.
I'm thinking a small amount of red, unless I can get more info. I really don't know what a "small amount" would be though.
I'll visit the loctite site and maybe send an e-mail.
 
Keith, I have ALWAYS used the RED Loctite, even as a Suzuki dealer mechanic in the 80s. It will let the bolt back out NO problem if you use a 1/2 inch drive air impact if you ever have to remove it. I have NEVER had a problem getting a rotor bolt out after using red Loctite. Ray.
 
The Loctite 271 (red) works great for me in the majority of my applications, and I find that either heat or a 3/8" impact wrench works quite well to remove if necessary.
 
Thanks for the replies.
As for any heat needed to assist removing red loctite, what kind of heat and from what heat source are we talking here?
 
Also, I left an e-mail at Loctite. They said they'd reply within 2 days.
I told them the bolt in question will be under 72 ft/lb torque and up to 300 degrees and contacted by oil. I do appreciate all replies but we'll see if they give me (us) a straight forward positive answer.
I'm fairly sure that the 3 starter clutch bolts will be OK with blue loctite. Agreed? They're to be torqued at 14ft/lb max.
 
KEITH KRAUSE said:
Thanks for the replies.
As for any heat needed to assist removing red loctite, what kind of heat and from what heat source are we talking here?
Click to expand...

According to their website, for either red 262 or red 271 high strength threadlocker you need to heat the part up to 250 degrees C for dis-assembly. That's 480 degrees F.
 
Jaguarjoe said:
According to their website, for either red 262 or red 271 high strength threadlocker you need to heat the part up to 250 degrees C for dis-assembly. That's 480 degrees F.
Click to expand...
So you'd have to buy a heat gun? I've never owned a heat gun but I assume they reach that temp? Otherwise, you'd have to use a flame!:shock:
 
I've always used blue on the starter clutch bolts. Never a problem with them vibrating/backing out.

Earl


KEITH KRAUSE said:
Also, I left an e-mail at Loctite. They said they'd reply within 2 days.
I told them the bolt in question will be under 72 ft/lb torque and up to 300 degrees and contacted by oil. I do appreciate all replies but we'll see if they give me (us) a straight forward positive answer.
I'm fairly sure that the 3 starter clutch bolts will be OK with blue loctite. Agreed? They're to be torqued at 14ft/lb max.
Click to expand...
 
KEITH KRAUSE said:
So you'd have to buy a heat gun? I've never owned a heat gun but I assume they reach that temp? Otherwise, you'd have to use a flame!:shock:
Click to expand...

No, you don't need a heat gun -- if you use the red, you'll need EITHER heat OR an impact gun to remove the rotor bolt.

Since it's highly impractical and would be a really bad idea to heat a GS crankshaft to 400+ degrees, simply remove the bolt with an air impact wrench the next time. That's probably how you took apart in the first place anyway. The red Loctite is very similar in strength to the original stuff Suzuki used. It's not going to hurt the hardened steel threads in the bolt or crank.

I would recommend using the red Loctite -- that's what I've always used. Most everything else gets blue.

On 6mm and smaller fasteners into aluminum, I've also been making a lot more use lately of the low-strength green Loctite -- it holds nicely without making things too difficult to remove or tearing up the aluminum.
 
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I second the several opinions already offered here - though I confess I've never put much thought into it. Use the red! An impact tool will get it off.
 
I've used the red a couple of times, and never had a problem getting it undone. Sure it's a bit of a grunt, and you need to hold the rotor securely, but it's all well-within the realms of my average strength.

What I have had a problem with, however, is when some well-meaning PO has put loctite on the taper which the rotor slots onto... now that took heat from a blow-torch and a very hunky puller. :shock:
 
tfb said:
What I have had a problem with, however, is when some well-meaning PO has put loctite on the taper which the rotor slots onto... now that took heat from a blow-torch and a very hunky puller. :shock:
Click to expand...
How do you know a PO was well meaning?:lol: There are sicko's out there!
I'm sure some owners are thinking that applying sealant to the taper is "insurance".
It looks like red is the correct one to use. I'm still waiting for Loctite to call me but I believe all the red recommendations are correct. Blue for the starter clutch bolts.
Thanks for the replies. I appreciate them!
 
Jaguarjoe said:
According to their website, for either red 262 or red 271 high strength threadlocker you need to heat the part up to 250 degrees C for dis-assembly. That's 480 degrees F.
Click to expand...
Very first reply was spot on!
I just talked to a technical rep' at loctite and he said to use red 271, based on my application. Most of your recommendations had me going with that anyway.
He said there are several red types. Now all I have to do is find red 271. Too many choices today. Remember when you just bought a Coke? Now you have to pay attention to what you're picking up. Coke, Diet coke, caffiene free, flavor free....ok, just kidding about the last one.
 
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