Regulating the regulator issue (or trying to...) AKA the series regulator saga...

[Lorenzo]

This is rather a request for comment than an assertion.
Done with the intro, do you gentlemen think, we on this very forum, could set the record straight about the issue, on a global scale?

I, more often than not, am caught reading about this subject, not only here, with on one side people asking questions and on the other, people (which might have investigated the matter, in a deeper way) replaying as the other did not know the beneficial properties of snake oil (the real one, not the chinese replica), to which follows the shunting of frustration by the asker.

One ought to take a shot at web paleontology, and find where the term series regulator was first released in the wild.
Which poster on which board and so on.

Looking at the etimology of the word series does not give enough clues as to why the term should apply to a regulating device of sort.

OK someone might see the connecting link, on the internal arrangement of components in such a device, but might even be the same as trying to give some sense to a Jackson Pollock's "acts of painting"...

What is the reciprocal of the series word, if it might serve as a semantic investiture of the acceptability of the word itself in the given context...?

No, not certainly shunt.

Well,what is my take at matters?
You see I am not either a trained technician or engineer, but I try and use wathever little investigative means in my possession, so I came along to the conclusion that, the proper way to address the subject is, referring to it as a three-phase open regulator.

Who am I to say that? Dunno, certainly not a guy afraid to be covered in ridicule...

Why I say that?
May I answer with a question to you?

Way in Shindengen parlance there exist a:

Three-phase Short regulator [citation] These regulators rectify the output from a three-phase generator, charge batteries, and control charging when battery voltage is high by shorting the generator input.

Three-phase Short FET regulator [cit] These regulators use MOSFETs for the three-phase shunt style regulator control elements to achieve low loss and high currentization.

Three-phase Open regulator [cit] These regulators rectify the output from a three-phase generator, charge batteries, and control charging when battery voltage is high by opening the generator input.

...and not a SERIES REGULATOR?

Your's the answer.

P.S. off course nothing too serious or to start a war on...eaceful:

Thanks for the attention.

 

[herostar]

Thank you for doing some research and clarifying the nomenclature.

Too often on many forums we end up with misinformation, often as the result of a telephone-game type regurgitation of information without its verification.

 

[Guest]

Series RR works for me, end of story.

 

[roeme]

Euh, I'm no EE, and designation of circuits, technologies etc. pp. sometimes vary between languages, within languages, and schools.

But have you read the Wikipedia Page on Linear regulators? Inferring from the functional description of the exemplary series regulator given there, and shindengen's description, it is very likely, that the SH775 is indeed a series regulator.

Doesn't make much sense to me to go through the hassle of switching phases on/off, only to go through a shunting regulator afterwards. :-k

 

[Lorenzo]

But have you read the Wikipedia Page on Linear regulators?

Not yet, but I've read Shindengen's page on regulators:


http://www.shindengen.co.jp/product_e/electro/reg.html


Now, I've gone through (part of) the suggested reading, and I must say that, above all, I appreciate your interest in the matter,


Not being an EEE nor an ET (E. Technician) myself but meddling with MCU as an hobbist, I suspect that the reading you proposed might not refer to an automotive application, but to a digital logic environment, where you need to have a specific output (5V) at a specific stage;


"The resistance of the regulator varies in accordance with the load resulting in a constant output voltage"

where in actual fact, in our case, the regulator simply opens the contact to the generator, so there is no raising in resistance.


Let's wait for the "sparks" to shed a light.

Still beats me why, people at Shindengen, did not choose to ride the "all the raging" SERIES magic word...:-k

Thanks

 

[Hinermad]

The terms "series" and "shunt" come from the field of electronics, where regulator circuits are very common. Both are very old terms. (I've seen them used to describe vacuum tube / valve circuits.)

A series regulator is called that because the switch element (transistor, FET, or relay contacts) is electrically in series between the source (the alternator and rectifier) and the load (the battery and the rest of the bike's electrics). If the voltage on the battery is too low, the switch closes and allows current to flow to it and the rest of the system. If the voltage is too high, the switch opens and stops the flow of current until the voltage comes back down to a normal level.

A shunt regulator has the switching element in parallel with the battery and the rest of the electrical load. If the voltage goes too high it's because the alternator is putting out too much current, so the switch closes to "shunt" or bypass the excess current around the battery. If the voltage is too low, the switch opens to allow more current to reach the battery.

Both circuits have advantages and disadvantages. The series regulator decreases the load on the alternator and rectifier stack when the voltage is too high. This allows them to run a little cooler, which helps them live longer. But the switch element must be able to carry the entire current demanded by the bike's electrics. Also, since switch elements aren't perfect conductors, they will introduce a slight voltage drop.

A shunt regulator increases the load on the alternator and rectifier when the system voltage is too high. That causes all three parts to run warmer, which may contribute to failure. But the switch element can be smaller and cheaper than the switch in a series regulator since it doesn't have to carry the bike's entire current load. (As long as the alternator's output and the bike's curent load are matched well.)