Regulator? Battery? Stator?

[Plasterdog]

Bike: 83 1100 ED
When I first started her up in March all was good.
But lately I've had some odd - I think- electrical ...glitches... nothing I can really point at and say Ahah, you're the culprit. In a nutshell when nicely warmed up the motor will occasionally die at a stop, and/or after stopping the restart will at first sound weak, second attempt all is good and will fire up perfectly.
I've done most of the tests from the "Stator Papers" and while everything seems to pass the test, they all only just pass the test. Sorry, I did not log the results but around 4000rpm I'm getting a little over 13v for the RR test, battery was reading about 12-13v. I have not done the stator test yet, as it seems to be producing current.
The RR was replaced about 18 months ago.

 

[GQROD]

While the engine is idling blip the throttle, if the light gets brighter momentarily then it's charging.

Could be the battery is not fully charged, connections corroded or pilot jets are clogged or idle speed is too low.

 

[Steve]

First of all,

Now I have to ask a few questions:
1. How old is the battery?
1a. Is the electrolyte level proper in the battery?
1b. How was the battery stored over the winter?
1c. Was it properly charged before you fired it up in March?

After verifying that you have a good battery, please go through the tests outlined in The Stator Papers. This series of tests will tell you exactly where your problem lies.

A bike that stalls at a light, then is hard to start sounds like it could be getting too hot.
2. How clean are the carbs?
2a. When is the last time they were synchronized?
2b. Have you done any modifications to the bike that would require re-jetting? (pod filters, header, etc.)
2c. What is the setting on your idle mixture screws?

Any of these things can lead to lean mixtures, which cause a bike to run warm. If it's just a bit too warm, clearances will be tight, making it hard to turn the starter. Add to this the potential of a battery that might not be up to par and you have a hard starting bike.

.

 

[Plasterdog]

First of all,

Thanks.


Now I have to ask a few questions:
1. How old is the battery? About 2 years
1a. Is the electrolyte level proper in the battery? Its a maintenence free/sealed and opaque grey plastic -no way to tell.
1b. How was the battery stored over the winter? On the bike attached to a Battery Tender. Bike was wrapped up in moving blanket with a full sized cover.
1c. Was it properly charged before you fired it up in March? As far as I could tell -did not test it before first crank- by third crank bike was running.

After verifying that you have a good battery, please go through the tests outlined in The Stator Papers. This series of tests will tell you exactly where your problem lies. I've tried the tests -most battery & RR- and it squeaked by as a pass.

A bike that stalls at a light, then is hard to start sounds like it could be getting too hot.
2. How clean are the carbs?
2a. When is the last time they were synchronized?
2b. Have you done any modifications to the bike that would require re-jetting? (pod filters, header, etc.) No.
2c. What is the setting on your idle mixture screws?

Have to admit I've done nothing to the carbs -oil temp is/seems to be normal but that may mean nothing. I do experience some momentary/minor flattening of power after running for a while.

Any of these things can lead to lean mixtures, which cause a bike to run warm. If it's just a bit too warm, clearances will be tight, making it hard to turn the starter. Add to this the potential of a battery that might not be up to par and you have a hard starting bike.

 

[Plasterdog]

While the engine is idling blip the throttle, if the light gets brighter momentarily then it's charging.

Could be the battery is not fully charged, connections corroded or pilot jets are clogged or idle speed is too low.

I did notice yesterday, as I was putting the bike away, there was a fluctuation/dimming of the headlight every seven or so seconds even with constant throttle/rpm (around 3000).

Battery connections are good, idle is about 1100/1200rpm.

 

[GQROD]

Check to see that the stator is putting out the correct ac voltage

Then check the R/R make sure that is working well.

Take a look at your plugs to see what color they are during an idle chop.

Adjust the premix screws and do more plugs chops at idle to confirm your idle mix is correct then run some seafoam through the tank.

The battery is a little suspect being 2 years old but do a load test at your local auto zone or parts place or even wally world.

( when was the last time you did a valve clearance check? )

Hope this helps

 

[Plasterdog]

Check to see that the stator is putting out the correct ac voltage

Then check the R/R make sure that is working well.

Take a look at your plugs to see what color they are during an idle chop.

Adjust the premix screws and do more plugs chops at idle to confirm your idle mix is correct then run some seafoam through the tank.

The battery is a little suspect being 2 years old but do a load test at your local auto zone or parts place or even wally world.

( when was the last time you did a valve clearance check? )

Hope this helps

Looks like I'm going to be busy this weekend -sooner if I can-
Valves were done about 1500 miles ago, plugs are a "good color" tan.
Seafoam?
Don't worry, I'll look it up.
Thanks for the help.

 

[GQROD]

If they are tan that is good, just make sure they are tan at idle when you do the chop.

The color may change in the higher throttle positions.

Seafoam you can get at auto zone it about $8.00 a bottle, it helps clean the jets in the carbs, most run it when they take a bike out of storage from the gas cloggin the jets.

You just have to be meticulous and you will fix it easily.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

Another test that was explained to us is to measure the voltage between the battery + and the reg + should be less than .25 volts higher readings indicat a high resistance in the wiring from reg to battery, same for the ground circuit

 

[BassCliff]

I did notice yesterday, as I was putting the bike away, there was a fluctuation/dimming of the headlight every seven or so seconds even with constant throttle/rpm (around 3000).

Hi,

I noticed this behavior on my bike recently. At startup my lighting would flicker. Sometimes once a second, sometimes once every 3-5 seconds. This went on for a few days until my bike quit charging altogether and my stator output was 10vAC per leg. See my thread about the Late model r/r unit. And go through the Stator Papers. You'll be glad you did.

Clean electrical connections, fusebox, grounds, etc. Bad connections, oxidation, corrosion will kill your electrical system.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Plasterdog]

Hi,

I noticed this behavior on my bike recently. At startup my lighting would flicker. Sometimes once a second, sometimes once every 3-5 seconds. This went on for a few days until my bike quit charging altogether and my stator output was 10vAC per leg. See my thread about the Late model r/r unit. And go through the Stator Papers. You'll be glad you did.

Clean electrical connections, fusebox, grounds, etc. Bad connections, oxidation, corrosion will kill your electrical system.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

I try and keep ahead of the corrosion but...
I'm beginning to think its more electrical than mechanical but I'll start with the easiest/cheapest fixes and work my way up.
I did get a RR from a local service place (Redlinecycle.com) but its from an 1150 =shorter & thinner cables totally different connectors (I'm thinking that might affect resistance and therefore performance/reliability??). I'm reluctant to start canibalizing as its an OEM (part #32800-04A00) and may not be the problem. I don't want to end up with two useless RRs.
I've read some of the stator papers already, then my head started spinning......
Thanks for your indulgence.

 

[Planecrazy]

Steve ... did you remember to do the spring sacrifice of ... you know ... the virgin cycle goddess? Protocol, man ... protocol!

Not much I can add to all the good advice already offered. I'll reiterate the importance of removing EVERY connection and ensuring that they are clean and corrosion free. I've found many times over the years that "bad grounds" and loose cables can drive one nutty while chasing down all kinds of complicated problems only to find the simple fixes by accident.

Hope yours turns out to be one of the simple ones!

Regards,

 

[bwringer]

This smells like a weak battery to me... I'd try a few simple load tests. Hook up a volt meter and crank the engine (just a few seconds, and you might need to turn the kill switch off so it doesn't start immediately). How far does the voltage drop?

A healthy battery will read 12.8 volts or so with the key off, then 12.2 to 12.5 volts or better with the key on. It will also usually stay above 11.5 volts while cranking. If it dips below 11 volts, you definitely have a bad battery.

You can also hook up a digital volt meter, turn the key on, and look at how fast the voltage counts down. With a good battery, the second decimal place will tick down a couple of times a second, but will recover most of the way with the key off. With a bad battery, the voltage will plunge a lot faster with the key on, and will not recover very far when you turn the key off.

 

[Plasterdog]

Steve ... did you remember to do the spring sacrifice of ... you know ... the virgin cycle goddess? Protocol, man ... protocol!

Not much I can add to all the good advice already offered. I'll reiterate the importance of removing EVERY connection and ensuring that they are clean and corrosion free. I've found many times over the years that "bad grounds" and loose cables can drive one nutty while chasing down all kinds of complicated problems only to find the simple fixes by accident.

Hope yours turns out to be one of the simple ones!

Regards,

I thought my write in campaign for Jeb was going to be enough but there again maybe I misread the messages that kept appearing in my head, the tin foil hat seems to have reduced them to now only sounding like they smell a funny colour.

We English are used to dealing with cra ...bby 'lectronics after all we come from the Land of Lucas. I learned at any early age to despise any 'lectronic malfunction.

I'm off to my happy place now.

 

[Plasterdog]

This smells like a weak battery to me... I'd try a few simple load tests. Hook up a volt meter and crank the engine (just a few seconds, and you might need to turn the kill switch off so it doesn't start immediately). How far does the voltage drop?

A healthy battery will read 12.8 volts or so with the key off, then 12.2 to 12.5 volts or better with the key on. It will also usually stay above 11.5 volts while cranking. If it dips below 11 volts, you definitely have a bad battery.

You can also hook up a digital volt meter, turn the key on, and look at how fast the voltage counts down. With a good battery, the second decimal place will tick down a couple of times a second, but will recover most of the way with the key off. With a bad battery, the voltage will plunge a lot faster with the key on, and will not recover very far when you turn the key off.

After a ten/fifteen minute ride I plugged the Tender back in and it stayed yellow for longer than I cared to watch. I'll leave it on for a couple of days and then run the Stator Papor Tests again, doing your load test first.

 

[spyug]

As you mention, you need to work from the simple to the complex. In electrical issues that means grounds and connectors. Ineffective grounds are always the starting point. Make sure the ground from the battery is clean at the terminal end and the frame/engine connection. Good clean metal to metal.

There is also a failure in grounding from the R/R in lots of these bikes and running an additional ground lead from the R/R (black/white) directly to the negative battery post can sort a wonky charging system which might be a partial cause of your problems.

After cleaning up all grounds then you should definitely look at corrosion in in your connectors as these are also known for creating electrical gremlins as the others have mentioned.

As you no doubt know, with electrical issues, you need to be thorough and systematic. Start at the battery ground and work through to the controls.
something will turn up or maybe not but if you go over them , clean and tidy, you will likely resolve your issues.

Good luck with it.
Cheers & welcome,
Spyug

 

[Plasterdog]

One of the first things I tried was taking the ground from the RR to a better place. It was attached to the bolt that holds the plastic plate with all the 'lectric bits (fuse/solanoid/RR). This has a rubber grommet with a metal core. Now the ground is directly on the frame using one of the airbox bolts, that seemed to improve the readings from the RR, slightly.

 

[Plasterdog]

Update.

Update.

Ok. Working from the simple to the complex, checked, cleaned, adjusted all grounds/connections. So much fun!
Before doing so the readings for 2500 rpm at the battery terminals were average 13v, after, 13.5v so my conclusion, for now is all is ok. :-k
Little concerend that the readings are an average, meaning that with a steady rpm the voltage still fluctuated, no more than 1v in either direction but still there was a fluctuation (less so after doing the clean etc.).
Any thoughts?
OH yeah, the battery is showing less than 14v after sitting on the tender overnight. I'll change the battery this week.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. Plasterdog,

You really should be charging at over 14v when revving at 4000rpm or so. What is the AC voltage output of your stator? Have you had a chance to clean the fusebox according to Mr. posplayer's instructions in my thread above? Keep us informed.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Plasterdog]

Thanks Cliff.
I'm going by the Stator Papers IV chart, which says that @2500 rpm voltage should be 13.5v and 5000 rpm less than 14.8 this is now (after cleaning/adjusting wires/connections) true(ish).
Meaning that I am getting around 13.5v but it fluctuates by .1v to .3v +/-.
But as the battery, after being charged via the Tender, is giving me at best about 13v, I think I need to replace that with a new one before going any further. The common thread on checking the charging system seems to be "...make sure your battery is good first..."
After many years working on Minis (real ones), Austin Healey Sprites, MG Midgets and the oh so sh...oddy Lucas electrics, I've learned that with all automotive electrical problems to change & check one thing at a time.