Removing starter, GS400EZ

[Runeight]

Bike turns over but slow. Like something is tight. Battery new.

Thinking this starter is shot. I did adjust the cam tensioner but could do it again.

[sigh]

Is there an adjustment in the black wheel on right of tensioner? Didn’t read anything on that.

 

[chuck hahn]

Yes it has to spin the gear in the hole you took a picture of CCW from where you took the picture. looking at the starter motor from the same perspective it should go CW

 

[chuck hahn]

Well now you know the starter motor is turning the gears correctly at least. The battery can show 12 volts but not produce a lot of cranking amps. I would have the battery load tested first.

 

[Runeight]

Chuck, I?m thinking cam tensioner to tight. Well, all morning on this. Lunchtime already.

Take a break and step away.

 

[fastbysuzuki]

Hard to see the tentioner is to tight unless you have not followed the service manual.
there is an exelent tutorial see http://www.bwringer.com/gs/camchaintens.html

 

[Gorminrider]

Bike turns over but slow. Like something is tight. Battery new.

Thinking this starter is shot. I did adjust the cam tensioner but could do it again.

[sigh]

Is there an adjustment in the black wheel on right of tensioner? Didn?t read anything on that.

When you put the tensioner back in, did it seem like you had to force it by using the mounting nuts ?

You would know if it's REALLY TIGHT by turning the crank with a wrench ...spark plugs out will ensure that you are not fighting compression as well.

did you not see post #8 and before?? You should have played with the tensioner. It's really pretty simple.... but yes,assuming you do not have the shaft lock screw tightened, if you turn the "black knob", it allows the tensioner shaft to recede..By "allows" I mean that if the tensioner is REALLY TOO TIGHT against the chain, this will relieve it. Then, Letting the black knob go, locks the forward length of the shaft....the thing is designed so the shaft slowly extends as the cam chain wears and stretches but maintains some "spring-loading" too.

Simpler is if you remove the tensioner and play with it to understand it. You can turn the knob, push the shaft in a bit, relock the shaft, and reinstall it to engine. Turn the motor to tighten the camchain at the FRONT of the engine,release camshaft lockscrew.

but before all that, if crank turns ok with a wrench by hand, and the starter bucks like a wild animal when power applied, (it should!!) the trouble is some where else

 

[Runeight]

I believe I had the tensioner to tight. I followed the service manual after the fact. When you loosen the locknut and set screw you shove the rod in AND turn the black knob counter clockwise. I missed that or forgot.

Engine spins freely and when turning with a socket the black knob turned clockwise.

Drained oil so everything waits until tomorrow. Oil and filter service. Everything else is ready to go.

Thanks everyone. The other half is hospitalized (since 01/25) in Vegas which is 90 minutes from me so I had a few brain farts along the way.

 

[Runeight]

Quick update.

Finished up, bike running. Started right up.

Little cleaning, install side covers and seat then.......off I go! Can?t remember the last time. June I think, a lot going on.

Thanks for the help guys. Hope my blunders on starter repair helps someone else.

It?s all good.

 

[Runeight]

75 degrees today, ready to go.

 

[Gorminrider]

(I got those new brushes...) and It was some fiddlin' !! to hold the brush plate in one spot while getting the end cap on too, but for anyone else, the "indent" marked with blue is the clue . It is very easy for it to all jerk out of place when fitting the endcap to the same "indent: because it needs to be turned to fit it and tries to turn the brush plate too!

 

[Runeight]

I assume you just changed the plate and did not completely disassemble but as mentioned earlier the plate has to line up with tab for the long screws to pass through it. Yeah, it takes some fiddlin alright.

If anyone removes the armature case be sure to make a punch mark in end cap (opposite of brush cap) and case. If not correct it will spin the wrong way. (CCW)

Mine turns over much faster (current draw) but I still feel it?s a noisy starter compared to other bikes I have owned.

 

[Gorminrider]

no,no. I bought the brushes. You can see the crimped union to the original braid....

$20(but that's CAN) seems kind of dear for these but considering the included shipping cost, and how quick they arrived , and nuisance of finding brushes to try to insert copper braid into (side-wired brushes being a bit rarer)- it's a deal. FYI -The interweb seems to favour soldering the ends together...but then they start to ramble on about different solders and heatsinks to control the solder wicking etc. These crimps are better, IMO.

 

[Runeight]

Oh, I see.....

 

[Runeight]

Things have been hectic for me lately. Weather is nice, wanted to go for a spin. Bike cranked hard like a low battery. Rump, rump and ump. Sat a few minutes then started although cranked slow.

Brought up to temp then shut off. Fired right up on many restarts.

Got me stumped, did a search, might be time for valve adjustment?

would like to replace the starter but holy cow. Expensive and not entirely sure that?s the problem. Anyone have a good used starter? GS400, 450.

TIA.

 

[Steve]

You guys are saying the same thing. :-k

Runeight, if you are referencing your CW from that view, that is the same as Chuck saying CCW, because he is assuming that the stator cover is off, and you are looking at the gears from the OUTSIDE of the engine, not from your reference point from the middle.

Most of the time, when referencing rotation direction, the point of view is when looking at the output end, not the brush end of the motor.

.

 

[Gorminrider]

Sorry to hear that things are still not right. Unlikely it's the valve adjustment but I understand the "casting the net wider" for a reason. If the engine turns easily (plugs out) with a wrench , and the starter motor spins well out of the engine (

but I still feel it’s a noisy starter

-that's not right! They should be like a squirrel in the hand-smooth leaping power) but then I guess you are left with
First :a Bad Battery (so try a car battery as a test ). After that, I'd be casting my net towards: starter's gear to ring gear issue including worn armature bushings in starter motor or maybe the starter clutch in the engine itself....

As an aside,chatting with a former bike dealer,per a different bike of mine, he mentioned he saw some seldom-used bikes where old crud from dirty oil would inhibit the starter clutch from working correctly and thereby thrash them...but I think this is unlikely in your case unless it's happened in your bike's distant past..

 

[Runeight]

Battery is new.
Replaced starter solenoid.

Barley started this morning but did fire up. Starts easier when warm. I did feel play in armature when installing new brushes. Odd, not that many miles on it.

Want to check timing, reading manual however there is no ?window? on the plate. There was a little white residue on the contacts.

Something is drawing a lot of current or it?s out of timing. Bike does run strong but thought I would check other things first.

 

[Runeight]

Reading supplements there is no window. Ah-ha.

 

[Gorminrider]

well, any sidetoside armature play would to be bad. But you'd notice it- worst case would allow the armature to hit the magnets and be noisy- as well, the armature shaft's gearend would be running out toward the engine's ring gear teeth so again, noisy. But a bit of a whine goes with the territory.

If it's a comfort, my 81 gsx400 spins pretty slow too if it's sat for a week, but the battery is 1/2 gone...("resting" voltage is 12.2 or so) My better bike draws a big current too-it's quite a load for the starter.

YOU COULD TRY: disconnect headlight. Mine both have headlight switches but yours does not. ( I defeated the internal bodge Suzuki did for Canadian daylight running light law in 1981) It's easy to insert a switch in the circuit if you find this works for you too

if the bike runs well when warm, then I really wouldn't worry about anything except the starter and battery itself.

 

[Runeight]

Yes and add to that the magnets on the inside of the housing were splintered off near the ends.

Im thinking new starter myself or at least a good used one. I see them cheap on fleabay but not sure of fitment. Seller isn?t to clear on description.

I DO like the idea of the headlight mod however. Do tell.