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Running rich, I need some advice, please

  • Thread starter Thread starter gs450sjip
  • Start date Start date
I suspect you have a minor issue still outstanding. Will it run at a higher RPM without the choke? If so, I would set it at that RPM and run the procedure, then go from there. It will take a few iterations to get it to settle down. If it won't run at any RPM without the choke, please post.
 
koolaid_kid said:
I suspect you have a minor issue still outstanding. Will it run at a higher RPM without the choke? If so, I would set it at that RPM and run the procedure, then go from there. It will take a few iterations to get it to settle down. If it won't run at any RPM without the choke, please post.
Click to expand...

KOOL AID KID,

Yes, I believe it will run at a higher rpm without the choke. When I first started it, it went to 3000 rpm without the choke, before I shut it down and backed the idle speed screw off. I set the screw completely backed off, or barely touching the carb linkage. I haven't had much opportunity to mess with it. I'll post Monday. Thanks, gs450sjip
 
If the weather is cold, it's probably going to need to be running for up to 10 or 15 minutes to really get properly warm. I first got mine going in December last year, and a 5 minute idle and run around the block wasn't actually long enough to get it properly warm enough to accurately set the idle etc.

I found just because it would idle off choke, didn't mean it was properly warm.

Don't forget to put a fan in front of it if you're just letting it sit and idle for that long.

Just a thought anyway...

George, apologies I completely forgot about your tuning method for CV carbs! I have yet to give that a go myself too...
 
NP, Pete. BassCliff is going to post it on his site, he just hasn't gotten around to it yet. When I rode in 40F (5C) degree weather, it took my bike perhaps 2-3 minutes to fully warm up so I could take the choke off. Not sure what you call cold, of course.
But it is critical to get everything correct for this to happen. When we muck with our bikes you have to be extra critical when tuning the carbs.
For example, my bike's changes that affect carburetion include:
Pipe
Pods
Dynojet Stage 3
Pretty much the whole shooting match when it comes to the carbs.
 
My issues could've been related to it not being run in after the rebuild yet, but I adjusted the idle and mixture screws after a 5 minute idle and quick run around a small block.

But when I rode it to get it registered, I had to pull over about 1km up the road and knock the idle back from the 3 to 4000RPM it was idling at :eek:

Seems I hadn't got it warm enough even though it was happy off choke... after I did that all was well...
 
You may want to read my procedure then. The objective section addresses such issues.
 
koolaid_kid said:
You may want to read my procedure then. The objective section addresses such issues.
Click to expand...

I'll give that a thumbs up! :D

Have skimmed but that's all so far, will definitely revisit at some point once I get some time to spend doing some more tuning...
 
koolaid_kid said:
I suspect you have a minor issue still outstanding. Will it run at a higher RPM without the choke? If so, I would set it at that RPM and run the procedure, then go from there. It will take a few iterations to get it to settle down. If it won't run at any RPM without the choke, please post.
Click to expand...

Kool aid kid, Pete,

I changed the last post to be more accurate. In a cold condition, with 35 degree weather, it starts quickly with no choke. It runs at 1200-1400 with slight choke (for a short time, then starts acting up). When the choke it turned off, I can keep it running at 1200 rpm with the throttle. However, the longer it runs, the worse it gets. It starts burbleing, slow, sluggish response, eventually will stop. Fuel is in the bowls, has spark. The plugs are dry black. The floats are set to a low fuel level (27.1 mm). The pilot screws are at 2 turns out, it will run cleaner at 1 1/2 turns. Spark plugs have been wire-brushed clean several times.
Ideas? Thanks for all your help. gs450sjip
 
Last edited:
Hmmm I'm about out of ideas at the moment... are the plugs fouled when that happens? Sounds to my uneducated ears like it's still too rich...

Another thought, are the spark plugs the right type? B8ES from memory...
 
pete said:
Hmmm I'm about out of ideas at the moment... are the plugs fouled when that happens? Sounds to my uneducated ears like it's still too rich...

Another thought, are the spark plugs the right type? B8ES from memory...
Click to expand...

Pete,
Yes the plugs are the correct ones, they are dry black. I too am out of ideas, except to take it to the guru that tunes and builds race bikes. He had my BSA on the dyno yesterday, does wonders. He claims he can make this Suzuki run well. That will be my next step....stay tuned, but it will be awhile...Thanks, GS450SJIP
 
Runs better when cold...a classic sign of running rich.

Dry-black...carbon fouled. Also rich

Starts with no choke at 35F....very rich

Idles better with the A/F mix turned in...rich

With all of your tinkering/refitting of the carbs, I'd still put my money on this being an electrical/timing issue.

Good luck with the dyno. Sometimes a little money spent more than makes up for the time invested.
 
BigD_83 said:
Runs better when cold...a classic sign of running rich.

Dry-black...carbon fouled. Also rich

Starts with no choke at 35F....very rich

Idles better with the A/F mix turned in...rich

With all of your tinkering/refitting of the carbs, I'd still put my money on this being an electrical/timing issue.

Good luck with the dyno. Sometimes a little money spent more than makes up for the time invested.
Click to expand...
Bid D 83,
When I got this bike, the original ignition was shot. I did replace it all starting at the battery, ending at the spark plugs. I also have the coil relay mod. When running at say 2500 or so, there are 13.7-14.0 volts to the coils. If there is an ignition problem, it would be in the timing, I think. I had a little trouble getting that right. But, it starts quickly and runs on both cylinders evenly. I don't know, I'm hoping the guy at the shop will get it sorted. I will keep everyone informed. Thanks for all the tips. GS450SJIP
 
Running rich...an update gs450s

Running rich...an update gs450s

Gents,

I talked to the mechanic last week. He explained and showed me what he thinks is one of the main issues. Ethanol corrosion. He showed me the parts that exhibit metal loss, both brass and aluminum parts. I was trying to get them really clean, which I accomplished. I did not know that some of the tiny holes in the components were "enlarged" by corrosion. He has the needed parts on order from Suzuki. He also tore open the entire wire harness..and found a couple bad wires, that he replaced. Lets hope it will be on the road this year. I will update you on the final results.
Thanks, gs450sjip
 
Aaaah interesting news! I've heard too many dodgy things about ethanol to run any in my bike, doubly glad I do so now!
 
Running rich.....not any more !

Running rich.....not any more !

pete said:
Aaaah interesting news! I've heard too many dodgy things about ethanol to run any in my bike, doubly glad I do so now!
Click to expand...

Pete and all contributors,

The dealer called and say's "it's ready for the road"! The OEM parts they needed from Suzuki came up not available.....so....they managed to source factory remanufactured carbs. I do not know from who or what the cost is yet. I'll see this afternoon...I'll let you know..

Thanks to all....(stay away from ethanol) if you can

gs450sjip
 
gs450sjip said:
Gents,
While I'm waiting for the throttle shaft seals to arrive, I have a related question:
Are there supposed to be internal seals on the bottom of the choke plunger? I ask because I don't recall seeing anything there, some photos show a small black area surrounding the protruding shaft on the bottom. Is this the cause of the richness I experience?

Thanks, gs450sjip
Click to expand...

I just re read this whole thread, and didn't see where anyone answered the question on the enrichener plungers

YES THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE RUBBER SEALS ON THE ENDS where they seal onto the carb body ports!!!

forgive me if you have already confirmed this...but if they are in bad shape, or worse, missing, your bike will run very very rich at all times on all circuits..
 
barnbiketom said:
I just re read this whole thread, and didn't see where anyone answered the question on the enrichener plungers

YES THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE RUBBER SEALS ON THE ENDS where they seal onto the carb body ports!!!

forgive me if you have already confirmed this...but if they are in bad shape, or worse, missing, your bike will run very very rich at all times on all circuits..
Click to expand...

Somewhere in the post there may be mention of these. I did confirm they seal under modest pressure, they seemed OK. Too bad, that would have been a cheaper fix, I'm sure..gs450sjip

ps. I've had this bike for a year and a half....I may get to actually drive it soon! When it quits snowing!
 
gs450sjip said:
Gents, Are there supposed to be internal seals on the bottom of the choke plunger? I ask because I don't recall seeing anything there, some photos show a small black area surrounding the protruding shaft on the bottom. Is this the cause of the richness I experience?
Click to expand...

barnbiketom said:
I just re read this whole thread, and didn't see where anyone answered the question on the enrichener plungers

YES THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE RUBBER SEALS ON THE ENDS where they seal onto the carb body ports!!!

forgive me if you have already confirmed this...but if they are in bad shape, or worse, missing, your bike will run very very rich at all times on all circuits..
Click to expand...
I just re-visited this thread, too, after quite a long break. I don't usually participate in the two-cylinder threads, due to lack of experience, but some of the general principles are the same.

Yes, I agree, there should be rubber gaskets inside the end of the enrichener plunger. If those are missing, that might have been your problem all along. :oops:

It was mentioned way back, near the bottom of the first page:
hjfisk said:
From reading through this post what ever the problem it is going to be something simple that is getting over looked I believe
Click to expand...
This could be it.

.
 
Steve said:
I just re-visited this thread, too, after quite a long break. I don't usually participate in the two-cylinder threads, due to lack of experience, but some of the general principles are the same.

Yes, I agree, there should be rubber gaskets inside the end of the enrichener plunger. If those are missing, that might have been your problem all along. :oops:

It was mentioned way back, near the bottom of the first page:

This could be it.

.
Click to expand...

Well Guys,
I just spoke with the mechanic. He has driven it a few times now, says it runs strong, smooth and idles great. No hesitation on acceleration, all is well. I guess, the money I wasted on parts and such rebuilding the ethanol damaged carbs is a lesson to be remembered. Without a a good candidate for rebuilding to compare, I couldn't "see" the damaged area. (loss of metal). Now if it would quit snowing....gs450sjip

PS.....sadly, this bike along with a 1971 T-350 Suzuki and a 1971 Honda SL-350 will probably put up for sale this Summer....to fund another project..an Indian Sport Scout...these cost a little more...gs450sjip
 
Glad to hear it sounds like it's sorted... but make sure you get some miles on it before deciding to sell it or not... my 450 will be staying in my garage even when I get my next project... I just have too much fun on it to get rid of it!
 
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