school motorcycle project

[midnightcafe]

I'm in what's called the scholar's program here at Union College, and it requires an independent project that spans two terms (out of 3-trimester schedule) sophomore year. I was considering a design and fabrication project involving my 1979 gs750L.

I'm thinking about making rearsets, and maybe an exhaust system. I work in the machine shop, I know what I would have to do to fabricate the parts, and I could make work orders and have the technicians weld the exhaust/mill the rearsets. Anyone have any experience fabricating these parts?

I still have to research this in depth to know exactly how much work this involves, like what kind of exhaust to go for-such as a buell-type under body exhaust for mass centralization-but this would mean removing the centerstand, and I don't know if there is ground clearance...

I also need approval of a faculty professor, so if this fails, I might have to turn vegan for three months as a backup project :-&

A member at yamaha-triples.org custom made a set of exhaust headers, which only cost him 30 bucks for the materials, so budget may not be an issue (I can always get funding). But my first milestone must be GETTING THE SUZUKI RUNNING! If all fails, I can bring up my 1980 yamaha xs850-but couldn't go off campus, seeing that I don't have a title for it(don't ask:?)

Also, I would need to take the MSF course, get my license, register/insure it. Looks like a decent restoration can wait...

Honestly, it popped into my mind when I thought of how I could convince my parents to bring a motorcycle to school! I'm safe though, no highway, no 100mph jaunts, just trying to learn and have fun.

 

[PAULYBOY]

What's the aim of the exercise? Just to do it? To see how feasible it is? To see how broad a market these parts could fit?

 

[midnightcafe]

I am completely free to choose whatever I want, so I would have to talk to a professor I know about it. Right now I can quickly think of the design objective being the design and fabrication of aftermarket rearsets and exhaust, in the prototype phase. Reason for these parts emphasize rider ergonomics, mass centralization, cornering clearance, and increased motor performance. All these aspects of the parts detail the improved ride and build quality of an antiquated motorcycle, allowing for reliable and safe transportation. The I would write a cost report that entails the price of materials and labor, and explain the feasibility for these parts given the limited aftermarket for early japanese motorcycles.

 

[dardoonk]

Does the prof you will be working with ride? If not, you might have a hard time convincing him each of these things is worthwhile, especially showing improved ergonomics to non-riders ...

Another angle, (and I am just throwing things out here, would be to come up with a project improving the bike to deal with one or two issues facing society today. Now you're offering a solution to a social or environmental problem, and the betterment of a group, rather than just the rider (whom they will presume to be you). You don't want to appear self-centered do you?

Ideas:
1] Ultra clean emissions on a 30 year old bike? Properly tuned for the maximum ethanol blend you can find (or make). Install a catalytic converter, etc. Maybe even combine that with...
2] Super quiet exhaust? Forget power, a well designed, very quiet exhaust system is friendly to others & helps solve noise pollution.
3] Convert it to run on LP gas - Okay, this might be a stretching it, but you get the idea.

 

[zig06]

Or you could always convert your bike into a single shock design.

That would take some real engineering and metal work. Just remember, measure twice and cut once. And there's always a cure for a piece of metal that's too long.

 

[drhach]

What are you studying? I designed and built an intake and exhaust system for my senior project. How far can you go with this? Meaning, how much do you have at your disposal in terms of technology? We did a ton of CFD on the intake system as well as simulation on the exhaust side. We also got to dyno the engine when the system was done and compare the results to our predictions (we came very close). I was fortunate to have access to one of our alums who wan an engineer at Ford. I got to use some of their computer time and talk at length with him about intake systems. That was his only job there, so he was pretty knowledgeable. It was a fun and a worth while project. PM me if you want more details.

 

[midnightcafe]

Does the prof you will be working with ride? If not, you might have a hard time convincing him each of these things is worthwhile, especially showing improved ergonomics to non-riders ...

Another angle, (and I am just throwing things out here, would be to come up with a project improving the bike to deal with one or two issues facing society today. Now you're offering a solution to a social or environmental problem, and the betterment of a group, rather than just the rider (whom they will presume to be you). You don't want to appear self-centered do you?

Ideas:
1] Ultra clean emissions on a 30 year old bike? Properly tuned for the maximum ethanol blend you can find (or make). Install a catalytic converter, etc. Maybe even combine that with...
2] Super quiet exhaust? Forget power, a well designed, very quiet exhaust system is friendly to others & helps solve noise pollution.
3] Convert it to run on LP gas - Okay, this might be a stretching it, but you get the idea.

Actually, the prof I have in mind is the advisor for the SAE Mini Baja team I'm in:

http://www.vu.union.edu/~baja/cookeville.html

We talked and he does ride a bmw-forgot the model- so he has an appreciation for motorcycles. As far as the exhaust goes, I think a quiet exhaust is a better Idea, given the fine tuning I would need to accomplish for straight pipes. I've seen others change their rides to rear monoshocks, and honestly I think it may require a big budget than the more simple rearsets and underbody exhaust. As far as what's on hand, I'm open to the whole machine shop, which includes a 4th axis HAAS mill and waterjet.

I'm a mechanical engineer major, and the department has all I need to do this project.

I'm going to approach him Monday, so I'll see how it goes. Thanks for the ideas.

 

[PAULYBOY]

How about an attractive electris bike complete with body work to conceal the electrics, insteads of the hacked together stuff you see on youtube, even from fairly knowledgeable minds. Just like food tASTES better with a good garnish, and cars look better with straight and painted bodies, these bikes could look good as well as be good for the ecology.

 

[82Shafty]

I'd opt for the green route... bigger jets, more timing see what power could be gained and where the 5 gas analyzer shows improvements seeing that most older bikes are non catalytic. Small engines do contribute at least 10 percent of our overall emissions in the US. Delphi is going all out on lawnmowers right now.

Green is everything along with emissions.

 

[midnightcafe]

Just talked to the professor and he thought that rearsets were a logical project. I didn't talk about an exhaust system since I didn't have time, but I'll ask if he thinks it's possible.

 

[82Shafty]

Does the prof you will be working with ride? If not, you might have a hard time convincing him each of these things is worthwhile, especially showing improved ergonomics to non-riders ...

Another angle, (and I am just throwing things out here, would be to come up with a project improving the bike to deal with one or two issues facing society today. Now you're offering a solution to a social or environmental problem, and the betterment of a group, rather than just the rider (whom they will presume to be you). You don't want to appear self-centered do you?

Ideas:
1] Ultra clean emissions on a 30 year old bike? Properly tuned for the maximum ethanol blend you can find (or make). Install a catalytic converter, etc. Maybe even combine that with...
2] Super quiet exhaust? Forget power, a well designed, very quiet exhaust system is friendly to others & helps solve noise pollution.
3] Convert it to run on LP gas - Okay, this might be a stretching it, but you get the idea.

I still have to go with the ultra clean exhuast. More and more groups are noticing and bringing to the surface that motorcycles aren't exactly economically friendly due to their non-catalytic exhaust.

What I would do is order a 100 dollar Catco cat or see if a local autoshop program can source a cat or two for your science project. Take the honeycomb and build a muffler around it for antique bikes.

Figure out how many bikes travel x amount of miles per year, and show the overall reduction of the current fugitive emissions.

Everyone and their grandma has rearsets and even though they are for newer scoots, go out and do something original, get recognized and pave a way for future cyclists. Certainly don't let money stand in the way, you can always find a sponsor.

 

[midnightcafe]

thanks for the input shafty, but the technician told me there's no way to really tune the exhaust without a dyno, which the school doesn't have. and the local guy who has one is supposedly an *******. I'll talk to the prof again soon, seeing that rearsets is just a fabrication project whereas a cat exhaust would solve real world issues.

 

[82Shafty]

http://www.epa.gov/OMS/roadbike.htm


I know that some of the newer wide band 02's have programs that will record emissions and you could mimmick the OBD2 drive cycle as your standard.

I'm not trying to step on your toes, just maybe one day when you become famous for solving something huge, you'll remember to give ol Shafty a good paying job.

"On June 30, 2005, protocols for modernizing and harmonizing the emission testing procedures for on-highway motorcycles were adopted in Geneva, Switzerland, by the World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations. EPA welcomes this major step forward in improving motorcycle testing worldwide because it will enable more robust emission control over a wider range of motorcycle speeds and accelerations. "

"EPA adopted new emission standards for highway motorcycles on December 23, 2003. These new standards will reduce the combined hydrocarbon and nitrogen oxide emissions in the exhaust by 50 percent as well as the harmful health effects of mobile source air toxics. "

Here is a great study:

http://www.epa.gov/OMS/regs/roadbike/trans-wp29-2005-55e.pdf

 

[Richharr]

find a diesel motorcycle engine and make a bio diesel. I've seen and heard them and its awesome. if you can find a low buck way of getting an engine

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/news/0604dp_100_mpg_diesel_motorcycle/index.html

 

[midnightcafe]

these are all great ideas, but if I want to keep the project then I have to fund it myself... so for now I'll be setting my sights on the rearsets. I just hope I don't finish it too quickly (I spend 8 hours a week at the machine shop, and the technicians are letting me work on the project since work orders are slow at the beginning of the year).

Also, I have to order O-rings and gaskets to get the carbs running!

My personal budget is looking good; I promised myself to spend no more than what I make this last term of school... the technicians are awesome and let me max out my time sheet so I'll have $700 for restoration!

 

[midnightcafe]

any engineering advice??

any engineering advice??

So here's a summary of my project: Going to design and fabricate adjustable rearsets to modify the current ergonomic setup for my 1979 GS750L to accommodate a more comfortable riding position complimented by superbike handlebars and handlebar risers.

difficulties I've encountered so far are the fact that the footpeg assemblies are different on both sides- the right footpeg is mounted farther back than the left and the distance between the mounting bolts is longer.

the assembly is going to consist of a mounting plate that bolts into where the old footpeg assemblies were (welding assemblies onto frame isn't ideal as a proposed aftermarket part). The mounting plate has a breadboard type mounting surface for multiple mounting positions. The new mounting plate placement already places the new footpegs about four inches back, this adjustability focuses on fine adjustment. There's about 3x1.5 inches of adjustability at this point.

A subassembly will bolt onto the mounting plate via two vertical screws. This is called a subassembly because it is a smaller plate for mounting the lever and bracket for the footpeg. The footpeg mounts on a bracket because I have to allow the footpegs to fold, so I will design a ball detent and plungert spring system for this.

Levers will attach to rod end bearings/steering arms that will connect to the shift actuator. On the brake side, I will relocate the rear master cylinder to attach to the aforementioned subassembly plate to allow for safe leverage operation of the brake (the leverage of the old brake lever is gone since the footpeg is located above the brake pivot).

My MAJOR concern for this project will be the ball detent system in the folding footpeg. Not quite sure how to do it, seems like the spring plunger is attached to the base of the footpeg and the ball detent is the cylinder that acts as the axis of rotation.
*BUT*
I checked McMaster Carr for ball detents and it seems that they only carry detents with the ball detent acting on the flat surface of the cylinder...


Any help much appreciated.

I'll post pictures of the rough SolidWorks design at the end of the week.