Secondary gear oil replacement-A Pictoral Guide

[BassCliff]

Hi everyone,

I've been busy today replacing most of the fluids in my bike. I've added a guide to replacing the secondary gear oil and the rear differential oil to my little BikeCliff website.

Let me know if there are any dangerous inaccuracies, but otherwise I hope they help. Thanks for looking.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Guest]

a nice and useful addition to your already nice and useful website
thank you
:-D

 

[Roostabunny]

Thanks Basscliff - great work as usual.

Hey, from the pics it looks like your fork seals need replacing... :-D

 

[SPARKSS]

Hi there Bass......all I can say is as-good-as-the-best.......and........better-than-most when it comes to a comparison of a huge number of service manuals I've used over the years (for many different things). GREAT JOB!

 

[BassCliff]

It's on my list

It's on my list

Thanks Basscliff - great work as usual.

Hey, from the pics it looks like your fork seals need replacing... :-D

Thanks for the kind words Mr. psyguy, Mr. SPARKSS, Mr. Roostabunny.

My front forks have been "weeping" just a little lately. I wipe them off with a shop rag every few days. But I don't recall a picture showing that. :-k

Oh, I get it. :idea:

I do have a pair of Progressive fork springs that I need to install. When I get around to replacing the springs/seals I certainly will document the procedure. Thanks for the suggestion. :-D

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[tconroy]

That's one thing I dont have to change.The 650 doesnt have a secondary drive oil.Im wondering why I dont have any wire mesh in my valve cover or breather gasket though.I also dont have a gasket under the timing cover.Maybe basscliff can "chime in" on this for me.What is the reason for the wire mesh?????

 

[BassCliff]

That's one thing I dont have to change.The 650 doesnt have a secondary drive oil.Im wondering why I dont have any wire mesh in my valve cover or breather gasket though.I also dont have a gasket under the timing cover.Maybe basscliff can "chime in" on this for me.What is the reason for the wire mesh?????

Mr. tconroy,

The wire mesh has probably been lost after all these years. Now I'll go out on a limb and expose my ignorance.

I'm no expert at engine design but I think the purpose of the wire mesh in the breather assembly is for filter purposes. It breaks up the air flow and allows extra surface area for the condensation of oil vapor so that it's not introduced back into the air intake system. It can also filter small metal particles that may chip away from cams or other upper engine parts and prevent their introduction to the intake system. Some crankcase emissions should not be re-introduced back into the carburetors via the airbox.

It should be pretty easy to find some automotive wire mesh. I'd suggest replacing it when you get a chance.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will respond more accurately.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[bwringer]

That's one thing I dont have to change.The 650 doesnt have a secondary drive oil.Im wondering why I dont have any wire mesh in my valve cover or breather gasket though.I also dont have a gasket under the timing cover.Maybe basscliff can "chime in" on this for me.What is the reason for the wire mesh?????

The wire mesh is intended to give the oil droplets in the passing crankcase vapors a place to condense and then drain back into the engine.

If you look up into a vented range hood over a stove, you'll see a similar mesh filter contraption intended to condense the passing grease droplets and thus keep them out of the ducting.

Your bike is supposed to have these mesh pads, but someone lost them sometime in the last 20 years. Not a big deal, but you should replace them next time you order some Suzuki parts. You'll likely notice less oily gunk in the airbox. Don't put steel wool or some other substitute in there -- it's brittle, and you don't need random bits of steel in your engine.

The paper gasket under the timing cover doesn't do a whole lot, other than keep rain out of the pickups and advancer. Your bike is supposed to have one, but someone probably lost or tore it along the way and didn't replace it. It's important in the long term, but again, this isn't an urgent issue. Just replace it when it's convenient.

 

[bwringer]

I'll check on my bike when I get home, but I think the oil level given in the secondary gears might possibly be too high. How far down is that shelf, or "spout"? As long as there's room for heat expansion, this shouldn't cause any catastrophes, but it could cause these gears to run hotter and with more resistance than they're supposed to.

You might also add that, do do a really thorough job, you should change the 14mm metal crush gaskets on each of the drain plugs and the rear gear level plug.

The fill plug on the secondary gearcase takes a 20mm aluminum gasket, which only rarely needs to be replaced.

These are all available at any auto parts store in the oil drain plug area, and any Suzuki dealer should have plenty in stock -- they're still used on virtually every bike. Here are the Suzuki part numbers:

14mm crush gasket (you'll need three): 09168-14004
20mm fill plug gasket: 09168-20003

6mm rubber/steel sealing washer for secondary gearcase level plug (the rusty screw BC didn't remove): 09168-06023
You can also use a 1/4 inch nylon washer from the hardware store for this.


It's usually pretty difficult to chisel the old gaskets off the drain plugs, though -- after years of use, they pretty much look like they're part of the plug.

In case you want to start over, here's the part number for the drain plug in the secondary gearcase and the final drive gearcase: 09247-14036

This is the pretty chromed oil level plug on the side of the final drive gearcase: 09247-14026

 

[BassCliff]

Details!

Details!

Thanks Mr. bwringer,

I shall make your post an addendum to my little pictorial. I really appreciate all the information.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[tconroy]

I looked on the bike bandit parts sight and did not find any "mesh" on there.i guess I will cal suzuki friday and ask.i do have another place to check,an old cycle salvage yard.I do have it apart right now and will adjust the valves saturday thanks to basscliffs sight.i can always take the breather cover off to put the mess in.were getting 3 to 6 inches of snow saturday so i wont be riding anytime soon.

 

[lurch12_2000]

Nice job on the gear oil change tutorial along with your others, BassCliff!

Here are a couple of things I would add when I did my gear oil change on my GS1100G:

Take the bike for a 5 mile run as the gear oil will drain better when warmed up, unless it's snowing like it is up here now!

Use a Sharpie pen to mark on the shifter spline where the split lines up before taking the shifter lever off to make it quicker to mount it back on in the correct position when done.

Invest in allen head bolts to replace the philips head on the covers(luckily mine already has them) if you have the $

You do a great job on your web site and don't take this as criticism!

 

[bwringer]

I looked on the bike bandit parts sight and did not find any "mesh" on there.i guess I will cal suzuki friday and ask.i do have another place to check,an old cycle salvage yard.I do have it apart right now and will adjust the valves saturday thanks to basscliffs sight.i can always take the breather cover off to put the mess in.were getting 3 to 6 inches of snow saturday so i wont be riding anytime soon.

Hmm... sure enough, the oil separators don't appear on the GS650 fiche.

They do show up on the GS850 fiche, though:
11186-45001
11187-45001

So, does anyone know whether the GS650 is supposed to have these or not? Or should this mystery become a new topic?

 

[BassCliff]

Great ideas!

Great ideas!

Here are a couple of things I would add when I did my gear oil change on my GS1100G:

Take the bike for a 5 mile run as the gear oil will drain better when warmed up, unless it's snowing like it is up here now!

Use a Sharpie pen to mark on the shifter spline where the split lines up before taking the shifter lever off to make it quicker to mount it back on in the correct position when done.

Invest in allen head bolts to replace the philips head on the covers(luckily mine already has them) if you have the $

Mr. lurch12_2000,

It just so happened that I had just got back from a half hour ride when I pulled all the drain plugs and "let it pour". But I didn't mention this in the guide. I also forgot to mention that this would be a good time to replace the screws with allen head bolts. (I mentioned both of these things in the oil change and stator replacement guides.)

Marking the gearshift shaft!?!?! Wow! What a great idea. I guess that's why I'm still a newbie. Thanks for that suggestion. It will go in my next edit.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[tomcat24551]

Re: Final Drive Oil Level

Re: Final Drive Oil Level

Let me know if there are any dangerous inaccuracies...

BassCliff

This doesn't rise to the level of correcting a "dangerous inaccuracy", but the information is worth knowing:

In May, 1979 Suzuki produced a Technical Service Bulletin detailing instructions for filling the GS 850's final drive with Hypoid lube. The instructions were to fill the Final Drive with the smallest of the specified quantities of lube--in this case, 280ml/9.5 US Oz. Then ride the bike for a few minutes to stabilize the oil level. Then check the level again, "making sure the fluid level is up to the bottom (italics, mine!) of the threaded filler cap hole".

I believe Suzuki is trying to say "Don't fill it above the bottom of the threaded filler hole". Why? Because the final drive has a breather system in it and the system's return oil hole is about at the level of the filler plug opening. If you block that return hole with an oil level that's too high, the breather system cannot work. Oil will fill up the breather system and pressure will force it out of the top breather hole and you'll end up with oil all over the sidewall of your rear tire--and a puddle on the ground, too.

I spent several days dealing with a "leak" like this last Summer. I thought I had a seal that had failed but it turned out to be a clogged breather system--which I cured by blowing it out with compressed air and making sure I did not overfill with oil. I learned about the level of the breather's return hole by looking into the case through the filler hole with a light on a flexible stem. You can see the breather system in the GS 850 shop manual that BassCliff has posted, too.

In my opinion, the best way to fill the Final is to initially fill it to the bottom of the threaded hole, ride a few miles, and then check it again to make sure the oil level is up to, but no higher than, the bottom of the hole.

Tomcat

 

[Ironriot]

Thanks Basscliff - great work as usual.

Hey, from the pics it looks like your fork seals need replacing... :-D

Dude you're slick. I could learn a thing or two from you....

Looking forward to that fork seal/progressive spring replacement tutorial Mr. BassCliff! I already thanked you in the other thread but you deserve another. Thank you for YOUR indulgence. Lord knows these old UJMs need it :-D

 

[BassCliff]

More great info!

More great info!

In May, 1979 Suzuki produced a Technical Service Bulletin detailing instructions for filling the GS 850's final drive with Hypoid lube. The instructions were to fill the Final Drive with the smallest of the specified quantities of lube--in this case, 280ml/9.5 US Oz. Then ride the bike for a few minutes to stabilize the oil level. Then check the level again, "making sure the fluid level is up to the bottom (italics, mine!) of the threaded filler cap hole".

Great info Mr. tomcat. Thanks for sharing. I will include this in my next edit (with proper credit, of course).

And thanks again to you too, Mr. Ironriot, for your kind accolades.



Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[BassCliff]

Teamwork!

Teamwork!

Thank you gentlemen. The latest edit to the "Final Drive Gear Oil Change" PDF file has been uploaded with all of the helpful information and suggestions from Mr. bwringer, Mr. lurch12_2000, Mr. Steve and Mr. tomcat24551. I appreciate the help.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Matchless]

Mr BassCliff,
Excellent job! This forum is becoming a gold mine of valuable information and your contributions are spot on.
Yes, sometimes what an experienced mechanic may see as run of the mill and would never take the time on documenting, may not always be easy for us do-it-yourself'rs and a well compiled user friendly tutorial is always welcome. I even started writing tutorials for myself - you know us "older" bikers tend to find that the old recall does not operate as well as before!
Just a question - did you find the old gear oil in the gearbox to be foamy or not when draining? Mine was, but the final drive was normal like same as new oil.
Keep those howtos coming!

 

[BassCliff]

Just a question - did you find the old gear oil in the gearbox to be foamy or not when draining? Mine was, but the final drive was normal like same as new oil.

Mr. Matchless,

I found the bevel gear oil to be black as in well worn, but not foamy. I had topped off the bevel gear oil when I bought the bike in March '07 (it seemed really low), but this was the first time I'd changed it. The final drive oil looked pretty good, only slightly discolored (this was the second time I'd changed it).

And thank you for the kind accolades. I'm glad to be of service.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff